And Yet Another Mode Question

[GnLguy]

Griff's recent videos about modes has opened up a whole new world of possibilities to me - and a whole of questions that I think will likely be answered as I noodle thru and find my path in this info

I've been looking at a song by Kim Simmonds & Savoy Brown entitled I Ain't Got Nobody.
According to Riff Station's chord calculations, the intro is played over a chord progression Bm - D - A - E - D - Bm - F# - D - Bm - D - Bm - yet its only Kim's solo guitar.
Similarly, the solo is played over
F# - Bm - D - E - Bm - G - A - Bm - D - E -Bm - D -E - Bm - A - E - G - A - Bm - D - E - Bm - D - F# - G - A - E - Bm - E - F# - Bm

Using the info from Griff's video, I take it that this song is in the key of A

If I wanted to learn the intro, using Griff's instruction and also taking into consideration that Kim Simmonds is a blues player from the 60's, would I likely use B Dorian or maybe A Mixolydian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbVJHBzaASw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbVJHBzaASw

 

[MikeS]

I have a more basic question...
In the Key of A (And I'm assuming that's right because we both came up with A as the key)
I ii iii IV V vi vii
A B C# D E F# G# A

Your chord progression is
F# - Bm - D - E - Bm - G - A - Bm - D - E -Bm - D -E - Bm - A - E - G - A - Bm - D - E - Bm - D - F# - G - A - E - Bm - E - F# - Bm

Right off the bat it seems to contradict the Stand Harmony Rule The F#, since it's vi should be F#m Right???

As to the scale to use I'm stumped, but the fact that it's a Bm and not a B might change things.
From Griff's Blusification lesson, I'd say Mixolydian A. But I'm just guessing here.

 

[GnLguy]

Hi Mike

You bring up some excellent points and a thought that I had as I read your insight was what if we viewed the F# as the III chord of the key - also a minor - that that would put the key of the song as D major.

If we did so, the F# would fall under Griff's statement about Gary Moore's Still Got the Blues and the E chord in that song could just be ignore b/c its being played as major chord instead of a minor.

I'll try to spend some time with that intro and see where notes seem to fall

Thanks for the response

 

[MikeS]

What I was looking for was two Major chords just one step apart. In the video @Griff said 2 Major chords 1 step apart are Always IV & V
given that, it's the key of A. (I know that he's also said that rules are meant to be broken, especially in Blues)

 

[GnLguy]

True on all points and we were looking at the progression in the same manner with the 2 major chords a step apart. Knowing the rockers from the 60s like Kim Simmonds, my guess would be largely that he used either a pentatonic scale with chord tones or possibly the mixolydian scale

Finally was able to see him play live earlier this year and he is as good and maybe better than most that seen. Amazing show

 

[Bolar]

I just listened to this. There are 2 intros. First the solo guitar ending with a B minor chord . Then after a break a 4 bar intro, that leads to the verse.
The 4 bars are 3 1/2 B minor, and last 2 beats in the 4th is F#7. From the verse starts, it's a blues in B minor. It's a quick change, and after the V chord in bar 9, it moves up a half step to G7 in bar 10, back to F#7, then the I chord in bar 11

 

[PapaBear]

I'm in agreement with Bolar, D/Bm is a better fit

 

[Griff]

I listened to that song, it's a Bminor blues... most of those chords RiffStation found aren't really there, they are just bass movement.

The chords, without the bass movement:

Bmin | Emin | Bmin | Bmin | Emin | Emin | Bmin | Bmin | F#? | G Emin | Bmin Emin | Bmin F#?

Now, the F# is hard to tell, there's only a bass player, and the lead player isn't playing the harmonic minor so I would call it F#minor - BUT if you wanted to create F#maj or F#7 sound, you can play B Harmonic Minor there (I sure would.)

Now... if you want to get all modal and add chords to go with the bass movement, you get

instead of Bmin - Bmin D E (which says B dorian, D and E are IV and V)
instead of Emin - Emin G A (which says E dorian which = B Aeolian because G and A are IV and V)

So you would use B Dorian over the Bmin chord, and I'd go to B Aeolian, or I might look at it as E dorian over the Emin chord.

Play around and try it out, you'll probably like one over the other.

 

[Scotty R]

@Griff - what are/were some of your goto sources to find the chords for songs?
Riffstation is good, easy to use, and free but might have limitations.
Any other suggestions?

 

[Norfolk Bill]

loads of tab sites out there,, you mean generally or just blues stuff?

 

[Scotty R]

Thanks Bill. I'm looking for both general and blues...
All those tab sites to me are "quantity". I'm looking for "quality" and trust Griff if he gives an endorsement saying one or two are better...

 

[Griff]

I'll be honest, I don't like any of them.

I use my ears, always have and always will. When I used to teach privately a lot I spent half of my day, every day, correcting the tabs and chords that students brought in.

Sometimes things were close, sometimes I couldn't figure out how the guy who wrote that was listening to the same song I was.

Any computer program can calculate a chord given a group of notes, but it takes a musical ear to hear something like B G D F# and call it G/B instead of Bmin(b6) (something I used to see a lot.) The bass note isn't always the start of a chord and most people and programs miss that fact.

Believe it or not, I run into the same problem with big band charts. Once a month I play in a big band with Laura and the guitar charts are always messed up in that same way. Next time we play I'll try to take a picture of the charts and see if I can show you what I mean.

 

[jmin]

Riffstation is good, easy to use, and free but might have limitations.
Any other suggestions?

My limited experience agrees with Griff. It's really hard to find good transcriptions out there!
But, looking for free and easy, my first choice is YouTube. It's not tab, but "xxxx guitar lesson." It's very hit and miss, but sometimes I get lucky and someone nails the song in a lesson. But more often than not, I have to combine several videos (or tabs) to come up with something that works. I wish my ear and musical knowledge was better!

 

[Norfolk Bill]

i do the same thing jmin combine several lessons and tabs until its close enough for me,,not neccesarily spot on just good enough for a cover band and people recognise the song

 

[david moon]

I'll be honest, I don't like any of them.

I use my ears, always have and always will. When I used to teach privately a lot I spent half of my day, every day, correcting the tabs and chords that students brought in.

Sometimes things were close, sometimes I couldn't figure out how the guy who wrote that was listening to the same song I was.

Any computer program can calculate a chord given a group of notes, but it takes a musical ear to hear something like B G D F# and call it G/B instead of Bmin(b6) (something I used to see a lot.) The bass note isn't always the start of a chord and most people and programs miss that fact.

Believe it or not, I run into the same problem with big band charts. Once a month I play in a big band with Laura and the guitar charts are always messed up in that same way. Next time we play I'll try to take a picture of the charts and see if I can show you what I mean.

I might have posted this before, but I came upon some sheet music (piano with guitar chords) that had a C/A for the guitar. In context, it was clearly Am7.

The other thing that really turns me off is "lessons" that just say "play this fret and then this fret" with no context of the progression or the scale.

 

[Bolar]

The solution to many questions regarding music is eartraining. Learning songs from recordings rather than from notation or step-by-step "put your finger there" explanation, is time consuming at first, but over time, it will do more for your playing, than pretty much anything else, and with the right amount of practice, it could very well be the fastest way.