Carvin Belair 212

[leftymike01]

Are theses good Amps,Which Speakers are the better The G12 or the Vintage 30's
found a couple used Amps on line 450.00 GT 12 1998 model,other not sure of the year
has the 30's in it.
leftymike

 

[JPsuff]

I found this article.

Hope it helps.

http://www.vintageguitar.com/3164/carvin-belaire-212/

 

[Elio]

I believe that Rancid has a Belair. I have a 50wNomad, which is the 112 version. With a new set of JJ tubes, if it's one really sweet sounding amp to my ears. Mine has the 100w GT12 speaker although I can't say I've tried comparing it to anything else.

Edit. I believe that the newer ones after about 2013 have digital reverb rather than spring reverb, so they have one less tube. Mine is an older one from about 2011 with spring reverb.

 

[mountain man]

I prefer the Nomad. It only has one speaker and is lighter to haul around. I prefer the stock Carvin speakers. They sound great and can handle greater power. I am using two Carvin Vintage cabinets with my Nace Pro-18 head and it sounds great! It has a different sound color than the Pro-18 combo. If you can't buy a Nace I highly recommend the Carvin Vintage. I own the Vintage 16, Vintage 33, the Vintage Nomad 50, and two cabinets. These are my open jam amps when I don't want to bring the Nace. These Carvin amps are great!!

Unfortunately the company is selling off their last products as they are going out of business. Now you have to get these amps used on eBay........ where I have bought two.

 

[CapnDenny1]

I have an older Nomad also, yes same as Belair, but 1x12.

I was playing it and it sounded fabulous, until all of a sudden it started making a horrible extremely loud buzz and shriek, so I quickly turned off the power. I haven't gotten to tear into it yet to figure out what is wrong, but it sounded really nice until that happened. I powered it back up briefly and it sounded OK, so it's something heating up or breaking down over time or temp.

Nice sounding for the price. They tend to be cheaper than comparable Fender amps, but sound as good or better than the Fender. It will blow away a Blues JR or a Mustang.

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

 

[gpower]

I have an older Nomad also, yes same as Belair, but 1x12.

I was playing it and it sounded fabulous, until all of a sudden it started making a horrible extremely loud buzz and shriek, so I quickly turned off the power. I haven't gotten to tear into it yet to figure out what is wrong, but it sounded really nice until that happened. I powered it back up briefly and it sounded OK, so it's something heating up or breaking down over time or temp.

Nice sounding for the price. They tend to be cheaper than comparable Fender amps, but sound as good or better than the Fender. It will blow away a Blues JR or a Mustang.

My little Champ did that recently... two caps and a resistor in the input later, and all good again.

 

[mountain man]

Here is the thing about the Belair. As it's a 2x12 it's bigger and much heavier. The Nomad is a 1x12. Both amps are 50 watts. Here is the important question, Where do you play? The last location I played (besides the BGU Live at Lake Arrowhead where we all played the Nace Pro-18) was a medium size Sports Bar for open jams. If I wheeled in a 2x12 I may have well have brought in a Marshall Stack. The point is it's too much amp. The guy who ran the weekly jam played a 22 watt Fender amp and believe me he played loud. Honestly, I never had the confidence to play that loud. So bringing in a smaller and lighter 1x12 Nomad is an amp that you can manage to move around easier and when my Vintage 33 watt was being fixed I didn't play the Nomad even close to full out. But my Vintage 16 couldn't clearly couldn't compete with the hosts 22 watt amp so I needed more. I have a 2x12 25/50 watt Marshall and never considered bringing that 80+ lb behemoth anywhere. If I ever play outdoors to a thousand + people I've got that amp.....

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

If it's too heavy, you're too old.
The 2X12 isn't any louder than a 1X12, so if the BelAir is too much amp, so is a Nomad. The 2X12 isn't any louder, it just has better dispersion.
Just because an amp is 50W does not mean you have to crank the volume full up.

The G12s are very good speakers, very similar to a Vintage 30.
I have a trail of tube amps in my past of around 50 different amps of every persuasion. My Carvin BelAir and original edition Legacy amps trump all of them. The BelAir has the G12 speakers, the Legacy a 4X12 with vintage 30's. Plugging the BelAir into the Legacy cabinet doesn't sound any "better", just ever so slightly different.

 

[CapnDenny1]

Rnacid is right, 50 watts is 50 watts no matter how many speakers.

Also the relation between wattage and perceived loudness is logarithmic, so to have a 3dB increase in loudness you have to double the power. 3dB is supposed to be what is just detectable as an increase in loudness. So the difference between a 15w amp and a 30w amp is going to be just noticeable. To be twice as loud you need a 10x increase in power.

 

[mountain man]

Rnacid is right, 50 watts is 50 watts no matter how many speakers.

Also the relation between wattage and perceived loudness is logarithmic, so to have a 3dB increase in loudness you have to double the power. 3dB is supposed to be what is just detectable as an increase in loudness. So the difference between a 15w amp and a 30w amp is going to be just noticeable. To be twice as loud you need a 10x increase in power.

So why not just bring in a more manageable smaller and lighter 50 watt amp. I think the only advantage a 2x12 has is it has a fuller sound. But as you say it won't be more than 50 watts.

 

[DannyB]

Sound dispersion. Like switching from bookshelf speakers to floor speakers. The bigger boxes sound bigger as they move more air. Dispersion of air.

Take 3 50watt amps. One with a 1x12, a 2x12 and a 4x12. Load a looper pedal. With amps side by side, run the looper thru each. Move 20ft away, then 40ft then 60ft. You’ll quickly learn about the differences and what folks in the front two rows feel and hear.

A sound pressure app on your smartphone will help setting volume levels.

 

[mountain man]

@DannyB . Yes, a fuller sound. And all of that sound dispersion doesn't matter in a small sports bar where many don't even have that 40 or 60 feet... Some might have 40 feet but not the direction you must point your amp. Or for those open jams where 50 watts is way too much power anyway.... But you can bring them if you like to play the 2 or 3 songs you get in an open jam. -Just trying to help for those who haven't gone to an open jam- You've got maybe 5 minutes to set up in your nickle size space they provide and maybe with just one power outlet. I found that a smaller more manageable package is best. Maybe a couple battery operated effects. One tuner and pedal to jack your sound for your solo. Don't get me wrong I like the 50+ watt 2x12's too, I've got mine set up behind the couch. But until you have your own band and play large venues, where are you gonna use it?

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

My whole mentality is centered around the 10 years I spent in working bands. If a piece of gear won't work in that context, I won't own it. I have said on here before that you will never catch me playing live anywhere with less than a 50W amp, and I have caught a good load of flack for it, but the flack makes no difference, I have my reasons and they are sound. Until you have spent a good number of years on the road playing every kind of venue imaginable, including a good number of sh*thole bars with acoustics that soak up sound like a sponge, you just won't understand. I not only have a BelAir, I also have a matching 2X12 cabinet for it. Why? So that in some craphole venue like that, where the bass player on the other side of the stage can't even hear me, I can place that cabinet over on his side of the stage. In small gigs, well, as far as I'm concerned, if there isn't room for another 12" of floor space, it isn't a gig or a sports bar, it's a closet.

I have quit tube amps entirely however. I currently use a Fender Mustang III and will soon be getting a Quilter MicroPro head ahd HD 1X12 cabinet. One big reason for that switch is that the Quilter can handle just about any speaker load you plug it into, and I can then still use that Carvin 2X12 cabinet if need be.

 

[DannyB]

My comments were generic in nature. I said nothing about venue or venue size.

 

[Grateful_Ed]

My comments were generic in nature. I said nothing about venue or venue size.

Danny, Danny, Danny. Sometimes the devil is in the details.

 

[DannyB]

@DannyB . ........................ Don't get me wrong I like the 50+ watt 2x12's too, I've got mine set up behind the couch. But until you have your own band and play large venues, where are you gonna use it?

I use my amps in the music room. I have to use attenuators on a couple of them because of the ungodly volume, but its worth it to me. I love the sound of cookin' output tubes! One of them is a 100w Marshall. I don't need it, but I wanted it and I love the sound and feel. I sold the Mesa amp in the photo. Next I want to sell the Mesa 2x12. I'm staying with four guitar amps, two bass amps and one bass cab.

 

[DannyB]

........... I have said on here before that you will never catch me playing live anywhere with less than a 50W amp, and I have caught a good load of flack for it, but the flack makes no difference, ............

I'm with you brother!

I will likely always catch flack over my amps. I'll start playing what other folks think I should play, when they buy it and send it to me! Ya feel me?

 

[mountain man]

That's one heck of a room @DannyB!! I would hate to have to be the one to move that stack!! wow! I have an attenuator too! I'm a tube amp man myself!!

 

[DannyB]

That's one heck of a room @DannyB!! I would hate to have to be the one to move that stack!! wow! I have an attenuator too! I'm a tube amp man myself!!

Thank you!

You can laugh at me about this. Rolling it around the room is not a problem, it's on casters. But I left the casters on the top cab. A 3ft jumper between cabs won't work. It's about 1.5 inches too short. I have to use a 6 footer. I'm one of those short, stocky guys and its hard for me to read the controls on the head!! I need to unstack it and remove the casters. That 2.25 inches makes a difference!

Right now, I'm busy doing nothing and I'm not quite done. But I'll finish in a few days and get'er unstacked and restacked! I promise!