Acoustic Blues Lsn 4 Example 18

[AlbertBrown210]

First attempt to use this forum. Not sure how to do this. Question directed to measure four of example 18, in Lesson 4 of Acoustic Blues. Without ties and/or rest symbols, I can not see the intended picking pattern in this measure. I see three quarter notes and two eight note symbols which equals four beats but I can't how the eight note symbols connect. Also can't see/hear what the video is doing. Can see the rest of the measures.

 

[TexBill]

@AlbertBrown210
If I understand your question and the reference to Lesson 4>Example 18>measure 4 the notes are grouped 1/8 & 1/4 (X2) + 1/4. Total beats = 4. How did I arrive at 4? One eight + one quarter = 3/8 X 2 = 6/8 (3/4) plus 1/4 = 1. So the measure gets a toatal of 4 beats as each quarter gets 1 beat. In other words, an eight note gets 1/2 of a beat that a quarter note gets, so in that measure, adding all notes values is equal to the same as four quater notes. Please correct me if I am not seeing the overall picture.

After reading the TAB for Lesson 4 Example 18, I watched the corresponding video. To me it is clearly audiable that the notes are played exactly as written. For each pair of 1/8 & 1/4 the count is the same a dotted 1/4. The pair gets 11/2 beats. So with 2 pairs of 1/8 & 1/4 equal to 3 beats the final 1/4 gets a full beat (4&)

Am I missing something in your description? Let me know if you see it differently.

 

[Paleo]

I wouldn’t worry about any “intended”picking pattern.

(Unless you’re an adamant alternate picker or have a need for speed.)

It’s a rhythm exercise.

You could just as well tap the rhythm on your leg or clap your hands, rather than play the 1st string.

I’d probably use all down strokes for the entire exercise anyway.

The eighth notes don’t “connect” to anything. You pick the eighth, then the quarter on the very next count and hold an additional count in both places.

The first eighth is on beat 1, the second is on the (and) of 2.

Which puts the first quarter on an offbeat.

Counting measure 4: 1 + (2) + 3 (+) 4 (+).

 

[TexBill]

@Paleo
Like the simplistic approach explaining how to count the 4th bar.

I wasn't sure I understood exactly what the original reference meant. There are no dotted noted, no tied notes and looked straight forward. No issues on my system hearing each striking of the pick.

Thanks for adding additional input.

 

[AlbertBrown210]

TexBill & Paleo thanks for the input. I'll stare at it. Think I have it. Saw five string attacks with mix of quarter & eighth symbols. Looked like: (1)& 2(&) (3)& 4(&) but that would leave an extra 5(&) for that last quarter note. That would be wrong. I'll work it. Doug,

 

[Elwood]

That would be wrong. I'll work it.

It is not wrong if it sounds good to you and you like it. Maybe later on something sounds a little better, and you go figure out how to play it that way. Play it enough and you will make it work, your way. I believe that is what we are after. If not, please don't wake me or shake me.

 

[TexBill]

@AlbertBrown210 maybe this will help to get the count correct.

I think what is slightly off when you counted is the 1/8 note gets i/2 of a beat. The 1/4 note gets a full beat. Like this
1/8 1/4 1/8 1/4 1/4
1 &2 & 3& 4&

Remember, one measure is 4 beats. If all the notes were quarter notes it would simple to count 1 2 3 4.

 

[Paleo]

Saw five string attacks with mix of quarter & eighth symbols. Looked like: (1)& 2(&) (3)& 4(&) but that would leave an extra 5(&) for that last quarter note.

If the 5 "attacks" are in parentheses it would be:

(1)(&) 2(&) (3)& (4)&

I like to do the opposite.

I write the attacks with the held counts in parentheses:

1 &(2) & 3(&) 4(&) or as above I like using + rather than &:

1 + (2) + 3 (+) 4 (+)

When actually playing I like to just say the attacked/picked counts out loud:

1 and and 3 4.

(Can't resist jumping out of bed for a quick demo.)

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sv6az2vydhq2vv1/measure%204.m4v?dl=0

Two ways of looking at this: by note and by beat.

By note: eighths get 1 count, quarters get 2

Eighth = 1
Quarter = + (2)
Eighth = +
Quarter = 3 (+)
Quarter = 4 (+)

By beat: each beat gets 2 counts

Beat 1 = eighth plus first half of quarter = 1 +
Beat 2 = second half of quarter held plus eighth = (2) +
Beat 3 = quarter = 3 (+)
Beat 4 = quarter = 4 (+)


Again, I think that first quarter starting on an offbeat is tripping you up.

You could rewrite that quarter as two tied eighth notes.

Then you would have: eighth, 2 eighths tied, eighth, quarter, quarter

Eighth = 1
Tied eights = + (2)
Eighth = +
Quarter = 3 (+)
Quarter = 4 (+)


Coming full circle back to being able to see it with ties!

I think I've exhausted all the ways I can think of to approach it.

Maybe someone else can come up with another?

 

[AlbertBrown210]

I thank all for the input. I generally do not have a problem with reading the examples. Just that when Griff posts an example he means for it to teach a point. He is the best at teaching rhythm and counting. So when I look at an example, to me, the staff, tab and video ought to match and all three are making teaching points in how to use each. This specific measure is not a major road bump -- just an academic drill for me. I am having a problem with the counting in this specific measure -- not in all others. I'll just stare at it a little and pass on. Thanks again. Doug,

 

[Paleo]

when Griff posts an example he means for it to teach a point. He is the best at teaching rhythm and counting. So when I look at an example, to me, the staff, tab and video ought to match and all three are making teaching points in how to use each. This specific measure is not a major road bump -- just an academic drill for me. I am having a problem with the counting in this specific measure -- not in all others.

All of that is understood.

Maybe try looping the video to repeat just measure 4 over and over.

Griff will be counting and playing it just as I first demonstrated.

Also, try writing out the counts below each note right there in the manual as Griff suggests.

Or print out the page and write it in.

 

[AlbertBrown210]

Paleo (and others), I went back to the video and did a start/stop loop on the measure and slowed the audio down to lowest. Clearly seems that Griff is counting & striking:
1+ = the first eighth and the first quarter
(2)+ = the second eighth
3(+) = the third quarter
4(+) = the fourth quarter
If so, I did not know that one could have an eighth and a quarter (total 3 eighths) in a 4/4 beat unless we are doing a triplet or such. Anyway on we go.

 

[Paleo]

I did not know that one could have an eighth and a quarter (total 3 eighths) in a 4/4 beat unless we are doing a triplet or such.

You can have any combination of quarters and eighths in 4/4 as long as the total counts add up to 8.

Notes can start on beats or off.

With triplet 8ths the total count would be 12, similar to 12/8.

I suspect you’re still seeing the eighths and quarters as “connected” when they are not.

A quarter followed by an eighth both could start on a beat or both start on offbeats.

An eighth followed by a quarter they both could not. One would be on and the other off.

 

[MikeS]

I think everyone is saying the same thing, but maybe a picture is worth maybe 2 or 3 words in my case...
If this is the measure you are talking about...

the picking patter could be as shown DUDUD
the count would be: 1 &2 & 3& 4&

 

[Paleo]

Clearly seems that Griff is counting & striking:
1+ = the first eighth and the first quarter
(2)+ = the second eighth
3(+) = the third quarter
4(+) = the fourth quarter

The beats are broken down correctly.

I would suggest the following additions to the description.

1+ = the first eighth and the first count of the first quarter
(2)+ = second count of the first quarter and the second eighth
3(+) = the third quarter
4(+) = the fourth quarter

 

[dvs]

I think everyone is saying the same thing, but maybe a picture is worth maybe 2 or 3 words in my case...
If this is the measure you are talking about...
View attachment 18373
the picking patter could be as shown DUDUD
the count would be: 1 &2 & 3& 4&

If those were chords, I would strum it D U - U D - D, otherwise the arm movement is stopping and starting which can be challenging to keep in time. I believe I would do it the same way for single notes.

 

[AlbertBrown210]

I think everyone is saying the same thing, but maybe a picture is worth maybe 2 or 3 words in my case...
If this is the measure you are talking about...
View attachment 18373
the picking patter could be as shown DUDUD
the count would be: 1 &2 & 3& 4&

MikeS, thanks the picture says it all.