Remix of MikeS challenge submission

[sdbrit68]

Black Night by Charles Brown from 1951

So, this to me had a more jazzy feel, so I went with it.................

So moment of truth, the good, I had never heard this song and I purposefully didn't listen to yours again (Make sure I have a clear mindset) I also from the vibe of the song really tried to tone it down so I didn't make it sound like a pop song which I have a tendency to do. Since some of the instruments were stems from an early recording, naturally there was a ton of bleed through and noise in the stems..............so cut that out where I could and suppressed the rest.....................the Piano was tough as It sounds like there is an old wurlitzer fed into a leslie speaker or something and bleeding into everything.

Hit it with a binaural pan, and made it two mono tracks, then sent both to a bus, panned those out and I think was able to give the piano some space on it's own. Saxaphone, lots of EQ to separate that out.

Drums were really interesting, as whatever kit he was using, I have not heard anything like that to try and mix, the snare sounds like a snap crack compared to more modern tshhhh tshhh tshhhh (if you can figure out what I mean), so that was a challange, had to go listen to some other things from the same time., tried to suppress my urges for a hard kick and instead tried to inflate the hi hats and cymbols.

Guitars and vocals, assume you used a microphone ? picked up some hum in there but I think I got it out. Listening to other recordings of the time frame, the guitars were not prominent in your face, while being a guitar forum, I wanted them to have some room, but still keep faithful to the original artist

vocals were amazing to work with...............since I can't sing, working with vocals of someone who can really showed me a lot, since it was more like, making something blue, bluer, instead of making something orange blue. Being able to work with vibrato in vocals and everything was really cool.
Added a little subtle harmonization in a few spots ...........................................anyway, let me know what you think (keep in mind, I am still a beginner at this...lol)

@CaptainMoto ?

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[CaptainMoto]

I guess I missed something here.
Mike sent Mark his tracks for a remix?

Sounds like Mark did a lot of stuff but I'm not sure it's in keeping with the roots of the song.
My advise is "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
What I'd suggest is do more with less, especially with old classics.

Maybe we should move this part of the discussion to the "Recording Tips & Tricks" area to allow for more discussion on mixing.

 

[sdbrit68]

I guess I missed something here.
Mike sent Mark his tracks for a remix?

Sounds like Mark did a lot of stuff but I'm not sure it's in keeping with the roots of the song.
My advise is "just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
What I'd suggest is do more with less, especially with old classics.

Maybe we should move this part of the discussion to the "Recording Tips & Tricks" area to allow for more discussion on mixing.

He was nice enough to let me have a shot, great learning experience on using some of the tools I never get to use, as I record everything direct............so dealing with stems with tons of bleed through, was a EQ work out , along with limiters and gates, as you say, its important to know how and what the tools do

 

[PapaRaptor]

Maybe we should move this part of the discussion to the "Recording Tips & Tricks" area to allow for more discussion on mixing

Done!

 

[CaptainMoto]

He was nice enough to let me have a shot, great learning experience on using some of the tools I never get to use, as I record everything direct............so dealing with stems with tons of bleed through, was a EQ work out , along with limiters and gates, as you say, its important to know how and what the tools do

I know the feeling.
I’ve had a few kind folks share their tracks with me.
It’s always an interesting learning experience.

 

[MikeS]

It is really fun to see where other people take a song.
I love how you got some of the instruments to really stand out. (Piano and some guitar in particular)
Stylistically, it seemed a bit odd to me. For instance, back when this was recorded, I don't think the Wah pedal had been invented. As to my vocals, you may have done somethings to try and hide my bad phrasing or a pitchy note here and there, but I usually don't like much reverb or tremolo on my voice. Could be that I just need to get used to it.
All in all I really appreciate you working on this.

 

[sdbrit68]

It is really fun to see where other people take a song.
I love how you got some of the instruments to really stand out. (Piano and some guitar in particular)
Stylistically, it seemed a bit odd to me. For instance, back when this was recorded, I don't think the Wah pedal had been invented. As to my vocals, you may have done somethings to try and hide my bad phrasing or a pitchy note here and there, but I usually don't like much reverb or tremolo on my voice. Could be that I just need to get used to it.
All in all I really appreciate you working on this.

Actually thank you................I learned a ton, and I took notes . It was help to me to start branching out from a "style" of mixing I am falling into, as not all music fits the same style, so much appreciated

 

[BraylonJennings]

Done!

That song of the day by Greg Koch is a killer. I saw him a couple months ago, probably my favorite blues guitarist these days.

 

[BraylonJennings]

On the remix topic, the song is unfamiliar to me and I didn't listen to any other versions, so I have no reference point. I listened on good speakers and noticed two things right off. There is no bottom end, bass drums hard to hear and thin. Second, there's nothing in the middle, talking panning wise. Horns way over there, keyboards way over here. Makes Steve's voice too isolated. I like the binaurel panning idea, maybe if you ran the right/left versions, and also the original non-stereo-split version it would leave something to flesh out the center and the bass. But it needs low end. I like the song and Mike's performance. Don't mean to be critical, but that's what this is about, eh? I'm gonna track down his original version and see if that changes my mind.

 

[sdbrit68]

On the remix topic, the song is unfamiliar to me and I didn't listen to any other versions, so I have no reference point. I listened on good speakers and noticed two things right off. There is no bottom end, bass drums hard to hear and thin. Second, there's nothing in the middle, talking panning wise. Horns way over there, keyboards way over here. Makes Steve's voice too isolated. I like the binaurel panning idea, maybe if you ran the right/left versions, and also the original non-stereo-split version it would leave something to flesh out the center and the bass. But it needs low end. I like the song and Mike's performance. Don't mean to be critical, but that's what this is about, eh? I'm gonna track down his original version and see if that changes my mind.

Exactly, since I am not a pro, I do it for myself, how do we get better unless we take critique , good or bad ?
And since I know the critique is to help me learn, it is taken with gratitude.


Mikes original version is at the very top in blue in my first post...................I get what you mean on the low end, truthfully it was kind of purposeful. I have a tendency to gravitate towards a ton pf punch in the kick, I felt this one, while a bluesish, had a Jazzy feel. Since the drums were pulled from a so so recording separated into stems, I really wanted the tshhhh tsshhhhh, so had to sacrafice the kick.

I didnt think of leaving in the split with it, interesting idea. I did enjoy the work to clean up the noise and bleed through...................but give a listen to the original at the top

 

[BraylonJennings]

Exactly, since I am not a pro, I do it for myself, how do we get better unless we take critique , good or bad ?
And since I know the critique is to help me learn, it is taken with gratitude.


Mikes original version is at the very top in blue in my first post...................I get what you mean on the low end, truthfully it was kind of purposeful. I have a tendency to gravitate towards a ton pf punch in the kick, I felt this one, while a bluesish, had a Jazzy feel. Since the drums were pulled from a so so recording separated into stems, I really wanted the tshhhh tsshhhhh, so had to sacrafice the kick.

I didnt think of leaving in the split with it, interesting idea. I did enjoy the work to clean up the noise and bleed through...................but give a listen to the original at the top

I listened but was called away from the studio before I could respond again. I like what you did, bringing out the sax and keys very well, but just felt the absence of a middle channel was too distracting. A good idea, maybe taken too far. Some mastering plug-ins have a feature that brings certain frequencies to the center of the mix. Setting that to roughly 300-400 hz might help if there is enough sound in that spectrum to work. Maybe something like that in combination with bringing some of the original mix back would make it sound better to my ears. I appreciate your work here, it's hard enough to work with your own music, a project like this is tougher.

 

[CaptainMoto]

I listened but was called away from the studio before I could respond again. I like what you did, bringing out the sax and keys very well, but just felt the absence of a middle channel was too distracting. A good idea, maybe taken too far. Some mastering plug-ins have a feature that brings certain frequencies to the center of the mix. Setting that to roughly 300-400 hz might help if there is enough sound in that spectrum to work. Maybe something like that in combination with bringing some of the original mix back would make it sound better to my ears. I appreciate your work here, it's hard enough to work with your own music, a project like this is tougher.

Some good feedback
We all need extra ears helping us

 

[sdbrit68]

I listened but was called away from the studio before I could respond again. I like what you did, bringing out the sax and keys very well, but just felt the absence of a middle channel was too distracting. A good idea, maybe taken too far. Some mastering plug-ins have a feature that brings certain frequencies to the center of the mix. Setting that to roughly 300-400 hz might help if there is enough sound in that spectrum to work. Maybe something like that in combination with bringing some of the original mix back would make it sound better to my ears. I appreciate your work here, it's hard enough to work with your own music, a project like this is tougher.

Thanks, I am puutting that in my notes. I actually have a dry erase board above my "Mixing station" where I put things on there to think about while working, things like

"Hey Dummy, the 80's were 40 years ago, back off the chorus"
"Thou shalt not have a heavy kick drum on all recordings"

And of course hints

 

[PapaRaptor]

I finally got a chance to listen to your mix, Mark.
I'm going to compare it against @MikeS original submission, plus I'm also really familiar with Charles Brown's original.

Let me preface this by saying I really don't like doing critiques of the contributions of others, because it makes me appear to be the pompous ass that I am! I love getting the opinions of others on my stuff, but really don't feel qualified to offer my opinion, unless you take it with a box of salt.

I liked how you brought the snare drum forward in the mix. In Mike's recording, there was a lot of "back and forth" between the original source and Mike's additions. Making the snare a constant presence in the recording lent a sense of continuity to the recording.

The wah on the guitar was a bit much, in my opinion.

One point that really stuck out to me was 1:41, where it went dead silent. The original recording would have had some sound (reverb or room ambience) or noise (instrument, record noise, anything). It doesn't need much, but it needed something to fill that audible space between the piano and the guitar starting to lend continuity to a recording.

Working with old, low fidelity recordings mixed with modern material is a big chunk to bite off, especially if you're relatively new at it. If I was mixing this, I would have done some work on Mike's guitar to make it sound more like it had been done at the same time as the original recordings. I would have done something similar with the vocals, probably using EQ as a bandpass more like a telephone line, with a 12db/octave cutoff below 300Hz and another one above 3000Hz.

I agree with the earlier comments about keeping the sound field closer to the center.

Since you were working with old content and new content, you can go one of two ways. Either make the old content sound new or make the new content sound old. The easier route is the second one.

It's just my opinion and to be perfectly honest, I don't know how I would make something like this sound without first hearing the "ingredients" that were present when you started the mix, so everything I said above is purely speculation on my part.

 

[sdbrit68]

I finally got a chance to listen to your mix, Mark.
I'm going to compare it against @MikeS original submission, plus I'm also really familiar with Charles Brown's original.

Let me preface this by saying I really don't like doing critiques of the contributions of others, because it makes me appear to be the pompous ass that I am! I love getting the opinions of others on my stuff, but really don't feel qualified to offer my opinion, unless you take it with a box of salt.

I liked how you brought the snare drum forward in the mix. In Mike's recording, there was a lot of "back and forth" between the original source and Mike's additions. Making the snare a constant presence in the recording lent a sense of continuity to the recording.

The wah on the guitar was a bit much, in my opinion.

One point that really stuck out to me was 1:41, where it went dead silent. The original recording would have had some sound (reverb or room ambience) or noise (instrument, record noise, anything). It doesn't need much, but it needed something to fill that audible space between the piano and the guitar starting to lend continuity to a recording.

Working with old, low fidelity recordings mixed with modern material is a big chunk to bite off, especially if you're relatively new at it. If I was mixing this, I would have done some work on Mike's guitar to make it sound more like it had been done at the same time as the original recordings. I would have done something similar with the vocals, probably using EQ as a bandpass more like a telephone line, with a 12db/octave cutoff below 300Hz and another one above 3000Hz.

I agree with the earlier comments about keeping the sound field closer to the center.

Since you were working with old content and new content, you can go one of two ways. Either make the old content sound new or make the new content sound old. The easier route is the second one.

It's just my opinion and to be perfectly honest, I don't know how I would make something like this sound without first hearing the "ingredients" that were present when you started the mix, so everything I said above is purely speculation on my part.

Oh no, you have much more experience.............so trust me, as I teach my managers, the smartest person, is the one who knows he doesn't know everything and seeks out those who know more. The dumbest person, is the one who believes they know everything.

And as I am a person who loves to be a know it all..............getting people to give me hints means a lot and is much appreciated. I have only ever tried mixing my own stuff so the challanges of this are well worth it