Song/Progression Analysis
- Thread starter Griff
- Start date
Stairway to heaven
in a great interview from the 70s Jimmy Page admits that the song is written after listening to a lot of early Renaissance music, and that the influence of chromatic base lines and walking melodic lines made it a little difficult to put the different parts together harmonically.
In other words, it is heavily influenced by Celtic folk music.
in a great interview from the 70s Jimmy Page admits that the song is written after listening to a lot of early Renaissance music, and that the influence of chromatic base lines and walking melodic lines made it a little difficult to put the different parts together harmonically.
In other words, it is heavily influenced by Celtic folk music.
Not that I want to get off topic - but typically songs referred to as "modal" are songs that basically sit on one chord for a while, then just simply move to another chord for a while.
My first introduction to them was "So What?" by Miles Davis and "Impressions"... but here's a little blurb on it:
http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=education&subsect=jazz_11
In respect to Stairway - it's actually a lot like the 25 or 6 to 4 example I used at the start of this thread.
I've heard the technique called "modal interpolation" but that was years ago and I can't find anything on google with that terminology now. So I'll use it but it may not be right. It would be cool to find the actual official term for this technique in composition.
Here's the gist of it...
You start a song in A minor and treat it as a vi chord (aeolian mode) for a while. Maybe you play an F and a G and a Dminor and some other chords that would fit in that structure.
Then from the A minor you all of a sudden go to a D major - basically you just flipped a switch in your head and just decided right now that A is no longer functioning as a vi, but now as a ii and you're going dorian for a while.
Here's an example from "Moondance" by Van Morrison...
At the start it's a 2 chord vamp, A minor to B minor. Since those 2 are minor and a whole step apart it's an A dorian sound. The melody, again, never uses F# or F, but the B minor chord has an F# in it to cement the dorian nature.
After 16 bars or so of this it goes from A minor to D minor and the melody goes straight to the F. During the last bar of the first section, he just decided it was now Aeolian and moved on accordingly.
After bouncing back and forth between the Aminor, D minor, and ending on Eminor, he goes right back to the Aminor Bminor vamp and it's a return to dorianville once again.
Now, do I think he sat down and planned that all out - no, absolutely not. Remember the music comes first and the theory is only here to explain it as best as it can so that we don't have to rediscover these sounds later.
Griff
My first introduction to them was "So What?" by Miles Davis and "Impressions"... but here's a little blurb on it:
http://www.downbeat.com/default.asp?sect=education&subsect=jazz_11
In respect to Stairway - it's actually a lot like the 25 or 6 to 4 example I used at the start of this thread.
I've heard the technique called "modal interpolation" but that was years ago and I can't find anything on google with that terminology now. So I'll use it but it may not be right. It would be cool to find the actual official term for this technique in composition.
Here's the gist of it...
You start a song in A minor and treat it as a vi chord (aeolian mode) for a while. Maybe you play an F and a G and a Dminor and some other chords that would fit in that structure.
Then from the A minor you all of a sudden go to a D major - basically you just flipped a switch in your head and just decided right now that A is no longer functioning as a vi, but now as a ii and you're going dorian for a while.
Here's an example from "Moondance" by Van Morrison...
At the start it's a 2 chord vamp, A minor to B minor. Since those 2 are minor and a whole step apart it's an A dorian sound. The melody, again, never uses F# or F, but the B minor chord has an F# in it to cement the dorian nature.
After 16 bars or so of this it goes from A minor to D minor and the melody goes straight to the F. During the last bar of the first section, he just decided it was now Aeolian and moved on accordingly.
After bouncing back and forth between the Aminor, D minor, and ending on Eminor, he goes right back to the Aminor Bminor vamp and it's a return to dorianville once again.
Now, do I think he sat down and planned that all out - no, absolutely not. Remember the music comes first and the theory is only here to explain it as best as it can so that we don't have to rediscover these sounds later.
Griff
GregRickard
Blues Newbie
My question involves the "Minor Keys" section. I'm having trouble with choosing the keys to analyze the chord progression. I do pretty well with most of the progressions, but I can't understand why you chose some keys for the analysis in certain progressions. For example, in the Answers video: In example #8, I understand why you use the keys of A flat and E flat---But I can't figure out why you chose B flat as a key for analysis. Can you help me out here?
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
@GregRickard
Rather than start from scratch for Lesson 16 and go through a similar process, he uses the same charts from Lesson 10 that were created when analyzing the Major Key.
Ex 8 in Lesson 10 was: Eb Ab Fm Cm.
Eb, Bb and Ab were the possible Major keys in the chart.
Eb was chosen making the progression: I IV ii vi in Eb Major.
For the minor keys in Lesson 16 he went back to the Lesson 10 Major progressions and picked out only the chosen answers that had a vi chord in them.
He could then analyze those progressions from their relative minor perspective, renumbering the chords making the vi of the Major the i chord in minor.
So the Eb progression which was the answer from Ex 8 in Lesson 10, I IV ii vi becomes III VI iv i in C minor in Lesson 16.
He's not going through the same process.
He's "simply" rearranging the answers arrived at in the Major Lesson from a minor perspective.
The rest of the chart has no bearing on what he's doing now.
Rather than start from scratch for Lesson 16 and go through a similar process, he uses the same charts from Lesson 10 that were created when analyzing the Major Key.
Ex 8 in Lesson 10 was: Eb Ab Fm Cm.
Eb, Bb and Ab were the possible Major keys in the chart.
Eb was chosen making the progression: I IV ii vi in Eb Major.
For the minor keys in Lesson 16 he went back to the Lesson 10 Major progressions and picked out only the chosen answers that had a vi chord in them.
He could then analyze those progressions from their relative minor perspective, renumbering the chords making the vi of the Major the i chord in minor.
So the Eb progression which was the answer from Ex 8 in Lesson 10, I IV ii vi becomes III VI iv i in C minor in Lesson 16.
He's not going through the same process.
He's "simply" rearranging the answers arrived at in the Major Lesson from a minor perspective.
The rest of the chart has no bearing on what he's doing now.
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GregRickard
Blues Newbie
Thank you. I had forgotten to analyse the first chord first. BTW, in the "What Key is This In" lesson, I've found that in Step 2, after bringing down the first chord from the chord progression (which will give you the scale to use), simply count backwards the number of notes in this scale to find the other keys (the note you start on is inclusive.) you will use to analyze the progression: for example, C Major could be I, IV, or V. So C is obviously I. Then to find the IV chord, count C, B, A, G---So the second key is G. To find the V key, count C, B, A, G, F---the third key is F. For me, this is much simpler and faster than bothering with the whole and half steps. And it works for every progression!
TexBill
Blues in Texas
At this time, I am working on GTMU. Am I missing something? At the end of some of the lessons, Griff makes reference to "EXERCISE QUESTIONS". and I never see the questions. Only a new video in the lesson that displays both questions and answers together with Griff going back and forth explaining the answers.
Was the course material modified and the questions removed?
Was the course material modified and the questions removed?
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
@TexBill
The “Exercises” for GTMU are printed in the manual following the text for each lesson.
They are mostly “fill-in-the-blank”.
I like to print them out rather than write in the manual.
That way you can go through them more than once.
And trust me, you’ll need to.
I think I went through the course at least 5 times before I completely understood it all.
Some of those times were years apart!!!
The “Answer” video slows Griff typing the correct responses into his “onscreen” manual.
The “Exercises” for GTMU are printed in the manual following the text for each lesson.
They are mostly “fill-in-the-blank”.
I like to print them out rather than write in the manual.
That way you can go through them more than once.
And trust me, you’ll need to.
I think I went through the course at least 5 times before I completely understood it all.
Some of those times were years apart!!!
The “Answer” video slows Griff typing the correct responses into his “onscreen” manual.
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TexBill
Blues in Texas
Thanks Paleo, that was very much appreciated. Somehow, I overlooked the manual. Guess I need to start looking for downloads before I venture into any of the courses. Some lessons have things available, and others do not. I will make an effort to check out the beginning of each new course before I dive in.
Have you had any of the really heavy rain hitting the central U.S and looks to be moving eastward? We have had a very HOT summer thus far. No immediate relief in sight. Be glad when we start to cool down.
Take care. Thanks again. Talk soon.
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
For AAP members the manuals for each course should be downloadable from the introduction page.
As far as I know, only 3 "courses" have downloadable video and audio:
The Ultimate Counting Workshop
The 4 Note Solo
Learn The Note Names
Other than that only courses you purchase or ones redeemed for using a Golden Ticket will be downloadable,
TexBill
Blues in Texas
That is why I overlooked the manual. I jumped in without looking at the introduction. When you mentioned it I went back to the top of the lesson listing and found the manual. Got it now.
Always go through the introduction page... that's a common mistake in the excitement of getting started
TexBill
Blues in Texas
Thanks for the encouragement, Griff. I usually watch the Intro, however this time I skipped like a flat river rock on a smooth as glass body of water. Advice well taken.Always go through the introduction page... that's a common mistake in the excitement of getting started