switching between minor and major Pentatonic scales

[greggome]

I am confused. watching Griffs video entitled "Using Both Pentatonics Over “Bluesy” Chord Changes" with a 5,4,1 chord progression it shows that I can play either major OR minor pentatonics throughout the entire chord progression. I did and it works. Yet watching the video entitled "Switching Major And Minor Sounds Around The Pivot" with a 1,4,5 chord progression it indicates the major scale can only be played over the 1 chord. I tried the method from the first video mentioned using the major over the 4 and 5 chords just to see and it sounds terrible. What is the difference? What am I missing between the two videos that make the outcome different?

 

[Paleo]

What am I missing between the two videos that make the outcome different?

Short answer?

The first video has chords all in a key. The second one doesn't.


Going a bit further:

You take different approaches for different types of progressions.

In the first video switching to minor pentatonic over a Major Key (diatonic) progression sounds “bluesy”, but isn’t a blues.

In the second video playing minor pentatonic over a blues progression of Dominant 7 chords (all from different keys) is a blues and plays by different rules having the option of switching to Major over the I chord.

Diatonic progressions vs. Blues progressions

Major chords vs. Dominant 7 chords

I IV V vs. I7 IV7 V7

 

[Paleo]

A little deeper:

In the KEY of G Major:

G = I
C = IV
D = V

You can play the G Major scale or G Major pentatonic over all the chords in the key,

However, playing minor penttonic will sound "bluesy".


For a "Blues in G":

G7 = V7 in C Major
C7 = V7 in F Major
D7 = V7 in G Major

However, it's convenient to still refer to the 3 Dominant 7 chords as I IV V in a Blues.

Play minor over all or Major over I.

 

[Paleo]

I hesitate to add to the already stated confusion by considering that there are more options for both diatonic and blues soloing that go beyond what's needed to explain what was asked.

The gist of the question is why you can play Major over the “5 4 1” in the first video and not the “1 4 5” of the second.

I wouldn’t try to add more options til I understood the ones I already got.

 

[greggome]

ok I thought it might have something to do with the 7th chords making the difference. Thanks for the clarification. Thought it was interesting in the pivot point video Griff says he hates the 3 fret rule for changing major to minor yet in the blusey chord change video that seems to be what he is suggesting.

 

[Elio]

I hesitate to add to the already stated confusion by considering that there are more options for both diatonic and blues soloing that go beyond what's needed to explain what was asked.

The gist of the question is why you can play Major over the “5 4 1” in the first video and not the “1 4 5” of the second.

I wouldn’t try to add more options til I understood the ones I already got.

Apologies for adding complications. I just realized that I was replying to the wrong thread.

 

[Paleo]

Thought it was interesting in the pivot point video Griff says he hates the 3 fret rule for changing major to minor yet in the blusey chord change video that seems to be what he is suggesting.

Here's my own thoughts on this.

Again it's a blues thing.

Over a blues progression you may be switching sounds on every chord or even within a lick.

You'd want to stay in one position with the Major (3,6) and minor (b3, b7) notes close by around your pivot point.


Over the "Classic Rock Bluesy" progression you may be making a "wholesale" switch for "extended" periods of time.

In this case switching positions may be more convenient for creating those Classic Rock type of licks.

However, you could also switch sounds while staying in position.


But for a blues it would be difficult to switch positions on every chord and virtually impossible to switch positions within a lick.


There are moves you can make staying in position you simply can't make when changing position.

The opposite is also true.

The style of music you're playing may be the determining factor in deciding which approach you choose to take.

Again, that's just how I look at it.

 

[greggome]

thanks. maybe that's the best explanation without Griff weighing in on this one.

 

[Paleo]

Here's another thought.

In the "bluesy" video he goes right to the 1st string root (D) using pinkie for Major Box 1 then shifts to minor box 1 using his first finger from that same 1st string root.

He could have gone through a whole thing about not seeing this as moving D Major Box 1 up 3 frets to F Major to get its relative D minor while playing from the wrong root.

However, this is still a shift in position and the "middle" D an octave lower will be in different places. 5 frets and 2 strings apart.

When playing Major in Box 2 and minor in Box 1 from the same 1st string root all 3 roots are in the same place and can all serve as actual pivots between the sounds.

He's stressing roots as “pivot” points in both videos.

(Though I guess I'm making a distinction between a "shift" and a "pivot". Regardless, you're stressing roots as “points of departure”.)

When shifting position or using the "3 fret rule" you don't have as many roots in common.

Sidebar: Usually I see the "3 fret rule" expressed as moving minor down 3 frets to play Major rather than moving Major up 3 frets to play minor.

 

[Griff]

Everything that @Paleo has said is true and correct... the problem is that there really aren't "rules" when it comes to this sort of thing.

There are several approaches, all of which can work, some of which sound better more often and some of which sound good when used sparingly.

Often times there are other issues at play with regards to the overall sound you're looking for, so it's really tough to give hard and fast absolutes, which is why you might see me say something that seems contradictory to something else I've said.

It is true that I don't like the 3 fret rule and that's because you focus on the wrong root. If I appeared to use it it's because I was likely trying to gloss over it to get to another point and didn't want to get hung up there... my mistake.

Having 7th chords vs. triad or power chords does, in my opinion, make a big difference. It doesn't have to, but again that's one of those things that just has a different vibe so I will probably play something different.

You could probably come up with a half a dozen ways to approach those changes and all would work, they would just have different sounds. So experiment and try to notice which ones you prefer. In the end it's probably the best thing you can do.

 

[greggome]

Thanks Griff for the response and trying to clarify. I did spend a bit of time going back and forth between the 2 videos because I really wanted to be able to understand how to use these ideas in my playing. As I tried to figure out how these two methods worked or didn't work it became confusing. It seems like its one of those grey areas but focusing more on the root note makes sense though the 3 fret rule sure seems easier with a major key progression as the pattern is second nature to me. I guess just figuring when its best to use which method is the trick.