Vocal Takes

[CaptainMoto]

Over this holiday weekend I watched a lot of YouTubes on recording/mixing with a particular focus on vocals.

There's a lot of stuff I don't know but, one thing I do know for sure is; I'm not a great vocalist!
I'm always looking for techniques to improve my vocals in a mix.

Somehow YT has decided I need to see lot's of Billie Eilish stuff...........that's fair, I was recently recearching her vocal mics.
To some degree, I am facinated by her success, in part because she and her brother Finiass, did all thier recording/mixing in a bedroom.
No high tech studio, No expensive gear, No recording engeneers, No producers................just brother and sister making music in bedroom.
They have billions of streams........billions!

Anyways, while watching one of those vids, I was reminded of something @BraylonJennings said a little while back.
I don't recall where he said it but, he said something about overcoming vocal shortcomings by layering multiple takes ontop of multiple takes.
Braylon, maybe you can refresh our memory on that?

So, what does this have to do with Billie Eilish?
Her borther does all her tracking/mixing and he was talking about having as many as 100+ tracks of her vocals in his mixes.
I creates a very deep and wide final vocal in the songs...........that's unbelievable!

Now, she is a very talented singer and can do multiple takes in tune and in time ( that's a big deal ).
They never, use any tuning on her vocals
I find that very interesting because the trend had been, even the best singers do some vocal tuning, It's the approach that has become a part of most modern hits.
There's a "Modern" sound that is part of the success formula for current music. They don't follow the trend.

Even though I work on my own songs/lyrics, I sing the same thing differently eevry time ( not the easiest for me to stay in sync with prior takes).

I think I'm gonna try the multiple takes technique on my next song release, ............see what happens.

For those that do vocals, what say ye?

 

[sdbrit68]

I tried two on my last song, maybe I need 98 more ?

 

[PapaRaptor]

For those that do vocals, what say ye?

I haven't tried it on a final mix. Vocals are usually the last thing I track and by the time I get to the vocals, I'm already sick of the song and want to get it in the can as quickly as possible.

I'll have to put it on my list of new stuff to try in 2024.

 

[MikeS]

So, what does this have to do with Billie Eilish?
Her borther does all her tracking/mixing and he was talking about having as many as 100+ tracks of her vocals in his mixes.
I creates a very deep and wide final vocal in the songs...........that's unbelievable!

I think there are two techniques here.
I think that Braylon was talking about singing the same song over again on multiple tracks (A few . not 100) thiat way a slight off key note in one track will be evened out by, or get lost in, your multiple recordings of the same vocal line.

I'm guessing the other is one where you record it once, then copy it to multiple tracks (I've seen 8, but I guess there really isn't a limit).
Once you have the track duplicated 8 times you tweak each track by changing the pitch u a few cents on one then down a few cents on the other swapping left and right pan as you go.
You can get a great description here:

Vocal Thickening Trick in Studio One - Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro

Sign up here to get free exclusive videos and content https://www.producelikeapro.com/recording-mixing-goodiesIn this video, Produce Like A Pro Academy memb...

youtu.be

 

[PapaRaptor]

I think there are two techniques here.
I think that Braylon was talking about singing the same song over again on multiple tracks (A few . not 100) thiat way a slight off key note in one track will be evened out by, or get lost in, your multiple recordings of the same vocal line.

I'm guessing the other is one where you record it once, then copy it to multiple tracks (I've seen 8, but I guess there really isn't a limit).
Once you have the track duplicated 8 times you tweak each track by changing the pitch u a few cents on one then down a few cents on the other swapping left and right pan as you go.
You can get a great description here:

Vocal Thickening Trick in Studio One - Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro

Sign up here to get free exclusive videos and content https://www.producelikeapro.com/recording-mixing-goodiesIn this video, Produce Like A Pro Academy memb...

youtu.be

I tried that with a few of my earlier recordings. The results were uneven. It has been a while since I watched Warren's video, but I think his method also involved time shifting the duplicated tracks as well as detuning them slightly. It really depended on the invidual recordings, but I found some odd phase induced artifacts when I did it on some recordings. On others it was fine. I read some posts in a recording group where it was mentioned that you can minimize the artifacts by detuning and time shifting using prime numbers. There was a long explanation as to why that would be preferred, but I didn't find a whole lot of difference between the formula Warren used in the video vs. using prime numbers.

 

[BraylonJennings]

If I can sing it well, I use single takes. If I struggle I sometimes will use three takes, the best one loud and centered, the others at low levels and spread a little L/R. More takes can be used if your singing comes close to being an accurate double. My takes are usually pretty close if I record them around the same time.
I've used the Warren method also. Usually 8 tracks hard panned, half detuned up and half down, and all of them delayed by varying amounts of milli-seconds. I take care to evenly spread the up and down detuned tracks right and left to keep all the vocals balanced. If I'm struggling on high notes, I may only detune the extra tracks up to give me a boost.
The more tracks I use indicates how unhappy I am with the vocal, and more copies does seem to help smooth out problems. The Warren method works well with even a couple tracks and being duplicates, the main vocal stays clear. If you re-sing each part, you get more chorusing effect and more of a change to the original, which is what you want if the voice is unsatisfactory. I'd use the Warren method if the vocal was pitched ok, but maybe just thin sounding.
These days I'm more apt to just use a few different takes.
I saw a Billie Eilish video about her and her brother's recordings. I understood they tracked her vocal a hundred times, but only for comping purposes. They would just select the best phrases or sometimes even best words or syllables to comp into a single vocal. I don't recall them saying they printed any vocals multitracked, but it's been a while since I watched it.

 

[CaptainMoto]

@MikeS
I think you're assesment of Braylon's earlier comment is probably close to what he said.
Edit: I see Braylon resonded while I was typing.

On the other hand, the idea of duplicating tracks is a whole different ballgame.
What Billie does is multiple takes rather than duclicating a single track.

Like @PapaRaptor, I've tried that Multi-dupe technique that was on Warren's channel and it hust fell short of expectations.
After messing with detuning and time shifting all the duplicates, it just was not worth it.....to me.

I know you've got the same TC Helicon Harmony GXT that I do. (or you used to)
Even though that's pretty old technology, I still like what it does and I will use it for some harmony or just to fill out my voclas from time to time.
I do that in two ways;
-Set up two vocal tracks with diffent mics, one going thru the GXT, the other on a seperate mic as the main vocal.
I'll blend those to get the effect I want.
-The second way I use that is to do a second take with the GXT, that way there is a natural variance in the takes.
That adds just enough seperation to widen the final blended vocals.
In either case, I'm usually limiting that to the chorus only.

 

[MikeS]

@MikeS
I think you're assesment of Braylon's earlier comment is probably close to what he said.
Edit: I see Braylon resonded while I was typing.

On the other hand, the idea of duplicating tracks is a whole different ballgame.
What Billie does is multiple takes rather than duclicating a single track.

Like @PapaRaptor, I've tried that Multi-dupe technique that was on Warren's channel and it hust fell short of expectations.
After messing with detuning and time shifting all the duplicates, it just was not worth it.....to me.

I know you've got the same TC Helicon Harmony GXT that I do. (or you used to)
Even though that's pretty old technology, I still like what it does and I will use it for some harmony or just to fill out my voclas from time to time.
I do that in two ways;
-Set up two vocal tracks with diffent mics, one going thru the GXT, the other on a seperate mic as the main vocal.
I'll blend those to get the effect I want.
-The second way I use that is to do a second take with the GXT, that way there is a natural variance in the takes.
That adds just enough seperation to widen the final blended vocals.
In either case, I'm usually limiting that to the chorus only.

Interesting. I'll have to give that a try with the GXT. It's on my board, but I have been using it real time on just a few songs.

 

[CaptainMoto]

Interesting. I'll have to give that a try with the GXT. It's on my board, but I have been using it real time on just a few songs.

You can just use the doubler or the harmonies
Just blend it in gently with the dry vocal track.

 

[MikeS]

You can just use the doubler or the harmonies
Just blend it in gently with the dry vocal track.

I used to use both outputs live then decided it wasn't worth the extra mixer channel. Now that I'll be using it at home I may have to go back to mixing the processed and dry signals. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

I like the stories about singers like Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra. Each would walk into the recording studio and would do a recording in one take. At that time, they would leave. The record would be cut and sold to the public.

Then we have Michael Jackson. It took two years before a recording was released from the day it began. It had to be processed by studio engineers.

Times change.

Tom

 

[Elwood]

It had to be processed by studio engineers.

to Michael's satisfaction

 

[MikeS]

I like the stories about singers like Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra. Each would walk into the recording studio and would do a recording in one take. At that time, they would leave. The record would be cut and sold to the public.

Then we have Michael Jackson. It took two years before a recording was released from the day it began. It had to be processed by studio engineers.

Times change.

Tom

Well, I guess if we could all sing like Sinatra or Crosby we wouldn't worry about bad takes either.