End of January Progress Report and February Plan

[Paleo]

Glad to see @PapaRaptor add modes to the discussion as I was about to add that it would be pretty difficult to explain modes of the Major scale without first having a Major scale to have “modes of”.

As an aside, Greek and "church" modes were modes. not modes of other "scales" that didn't yet exist.

 

[Elio]

thanks to Griff, I've known the SHR for many years. I can build Major & minor scales, but how does that help me "Color outside the boxes". I've yet to be able to apply it to anything but building scales on paper.

One example of applying the major scale comes to mind is in relation to the "You don't need to learn the major scale video". The guy's argument is that while playing, it's faster and easier to use the chord pattern to associate each note to its interval to make it easier to target particular notes on demand. He uses the example of wanting to land on the minor 7 of an A7 chord by essentially just remembering that in a 6th string dominant 7 barre chord, the pinky is fretting the minor 7.

The issue I had is that you would only know that either by trial and error, or by someone telling you. But, by knowing the major scale, it's easy to overlay it over any chord shape/voicing you want and easily figure out for yourself what interval each chord tone represents. Granted, that's something you would do in advance, but then use the chord shape shortcut while playing with any chord shape that you like. Coincidentally, a couple days ago, my friend who teaches jazz guitar was teaching me some chromatic and major scale runs that work really nicely in select places over a 12 bar blues. To do them, you need to think outside of the pentatonic pattern to the broader major scale pattern. Finally, as Lloyd also mentioned, I think more in terms of the major scale when playing bass.

...with that said, I can't say that I've consciously used the SHR before.

 

[JestMe]

Guys I hate to display my ignorance [again] so publicly but what is SHR...? Thanks!

 

[Elio]

Guys I hate to display my ignorance [again] so publicly but what is SHR...? Thanks!

The Standard Harmony Rule was my assumption.

 

[PapaRaptor]

Guys I hate to display my ignorance [again] so publicly but what is SHR...? Thanks!

@Elio has it. SHR = Standard Harmony Rule. My apologies, acronyms are easy until you don't know one. Then they become frustrating as hell.

 

[CraigHollander]

You all sorry to set off the major scale controversy but you're missing the whole point. He does not say dont ever learn it he says it more useful for beginner to learn in order of this video below then come around if they want to it.later. He also says he hates CAGE but then wait I used him to learn CAGE you have to listen to whole video he hates how its taught and list why students cant get it locked down why they hate it. You can say the same for modes. He is 100% correct. I am consolidating his advice into from multiple cage videos into 1 pdf and have already collected just the right set of diagrams will put up on my caged thread I hope tomorrow .

How I Would Relearn The Guitar From Scratch

My reaction video to ... let's just say there is some bad advice out there from some very high profile guitar YouTubers. The thing is, I don't want you to wa...

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Is CAGED worth the TROUBLE for guitar?

Since starting my YouTube guitar lessons channel, people have often commented things like, "you seem to be teaching the CAGED system without mentioning the C...

www.youtube.com

 

[Elio]

You all sorry to set off the major scale controversy but you're missing the whole point. He does not say dont ever learn it he says it more useful for beginner to learn in order of this video below then come around if they want to it.later. He also says he hates CAGE but then wait I used him to learn CAGE you have to listen to whole video he hates how its taught and list why students cant get it locked down why they hate it. You can say the same for modes. He is 100% correct. I am consolidating his advice into from multiple cage videos into 1 pdf and have already collected just the right set of diagrams will put up on my caged thread I hope tomorrow .

How I Would Relearn The Guitar From Scratch

My reaction video to ... let's just say there is some bad advice out there from some very high profile guitar YouTubers. The thing is, I don't want you to wa...

www.youtube.com

Is CAGED worth the TROUBLE for guitar?

Since starting my YouTube guitar lessons channel, people have often commented things like, "you seem to be teaching the CAGED system without mentioning the C...

www.youtube.com

I actually did watch it all the way through, but I still disagree with him on that point. Since it is the fundamental basis for western music theory, by learning and understanding the major scale first, there is an opportunity to then contextualize the chord shapes, modes, and chord-based shortcuts, as well as CAGED overall (although I haven't really invested any significant time with CAGED). No need to apologize, we'll debate just about anything here.

 

[CraigHollander]

I do understand your point of view however I was able not able to pick up and be playing like some of my Madison Square Garden friends by end of High School. From a hard learner pov.....I think that the timing of when to learn anything above what is in his list depends on how fast you learn that much and you are then better prepared to learn modes scales etc. I think with bit of dedication learning in the order he provides in 6 months very good at playing chord strumming songs of all types straight through and using pentatonic soling by end of year targeting the chord tones and moving between licks and chords. Now as to cage if you have not really used it what method did you use to teach yourself to more back and forth lioks to chords and to internalize the use and timing of chord tones and mixing in arpeggios? Just Curios. You will love when I post how I simplified based on Vancouver guys videos learning Cage. I just need time because have been working not practiced guitar unfortunately in 5 days. Will try to post on the CAGED thread tomorrow. In reality when I went back at it I realized its backwards the scales are all based on major as the foundation in some way but... what scale you use is determined by the chords how could you sound determines on both the major minor concept and chord tone targeting as well as the ability to move between chords and licks this is why he goes after the musical 1st not things that need a whole lot of memory because as I do my version of CAGE and as mentioned the scale the triads etc all are within the chord shapes. he has a video called should you cheat at guitar. If a new student in 6 months is playing like a struggling student. after 3 years but he doesnt yet know the major scale... he does not care the end game is to play music. again he is saying it has uses but you learn it when you need it. I will show you how the major and mode fits right into cage. Part of the problem is people are not good in general or dont understand how each thing in griffs course fits with the other in CAGE its chords scales triads apregsios and modes actually you will see when I post clear as day. best C

 

[TexBill]

Correct me if I am wrong. Isn't the SHR what tells us which Intervals are Major and which intervals (in scale degrees) are minor? No matter the Key, the rule applies and makes transposing a song to a different Key simpler.......

SHR = I IV V Major
SHR = ii iii vi minor
Diminished rarely if ever played -- not a 7th ---- a true diminished

 

[JestMe]

@Elio has it. SHR = Standard Harmony Rule. My apologies, acronyms are easy until you don't know one. Then they become frustrating as hell.

Thanks Gents.... I assume I IV & V are major while ii, iii, vi are minor... vii is half-dim... Yah...?

 

[Paleo]

Isn't the SHR what tells us which Intervals are Major and which intervals (in scale degrees) are minor?

The SHR for the chords in Major tells us the qualities of the triads that result when harmonizing the Major scale.

I. IV, V are Major triads (1 3 5)
ii,iii, vi are minor triads (1 b3 5)
vii is a diminished triad (1 b3 b5) = mb5

This is what Griff is usually talking about when he mentions the SHR. The Major scale is "understood” if he doesn't say otherwise.

The SHR for Major when adding a 7:

I, IV are Maj7 (1 3 5 7)
(Only) V is Dominant 7 (1 3 5 b7) , i,e. all dominant type chords are V chords
ii,iii,vi are min7 (1 b3 5 b7)
vii is "half-diminished" (1 b3 b5 b7) = m7b5

"True" diminished / "Fully” diminished / Diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7. A chord not "naturally" occurring in a Major key.

Minor scales and modes would each have their own SHR.

 

[PapaRaptor]

The SHR for the chords in Major tells us the qualities of the triads that result when harmonizing the Major scale.

I. IV, V are Major triads (1 3 5)
ii,iii, vi are minor triads (1 b3 5)
vii is a diminished triad (1 b3 b5)

This is what Griff is usually talking about when he mentions the SHR. The Major scale is "understood if he doesn't say otherwise.

The SHR for Major when adding a 7:

I, IV are Maj7 (1 3 5 7)
(Only) V is Dominant 7 (1 3 5 b7) , i,e. all dominant type chords are V chords
ii,iii,vi are min7 (1 b3 5 b7)
vii is "half-diminished" (1 b3 b5 b7)

"True" diminished / "Fully diminished / Diminished 7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7. A chord not "naturally" occurring in a Major key.

Minor scales and modes would each have their own SHR.

Thanks. I was writing the same thing at the same time. But yours explanation is much more clear than mine.

EDIT: After rereading your explanation, that is the first time the meaning of Dominant 7 didn't fly right over my head. Truly a light bulb moment. Thanks @Paleo!

 

[Paleo]

After rereading your explanation, that is the first time the meaning of Dominant 7 didn't fly right over my head. Truly a light bulb moment. Thanks @Paleo!

That just made my day.

 

[Elio]

Now as to cage if you have not really used it what method did you use to teach yourself to more back and forth lioks to chords and to internalize the use and timing of chord tones and mixing in arpeggios? Just Curios.

I'm not entirely sure if I'm answering your question, but transposing licks from one key to another is not particularly difficult to do on the fly in most cases, so chasing chords is just a matter of anticipating the chord changes and shifting to that position, the same as using the same licks in songs of different keys. I usually find the root notes of the chords and the target notes just based on whatever scale pattern I'm using. The majority of the time in blues that ends up being the minor or major pentatonic, although I have been trying to incorporate more of the Dorian and Mixolydian modes when I create my own licks. If I visualize the major scale over that position, I can find each interval.

 

[CraigHollander]

Elio ,

I am readying my final definitive on this subject. When you say the above it sounds to me that what you are doing is when changing chords you are just playing as griff calls follow the chord So if you are playing A7 D7 E7 yes you could just play box 1 over each at the 5th 10th and 12th fret
. I dont think you get what CAGED can do in relation to blues and pentatonic playing. Forger modes major minor for now . Wait until I send this out later today on the caged thread. You will see clear. Also understand depending on your personal level of skill you may already be doing these things that are the purpose of cage but not realizing it thats fine. This is for people who have not idea how to take playing to the next level.

As stated I could not do any of it last month and in 3 days of 1 hour of studying and experimentation you will see how much I do get it . Just wait for me to upload later I am making progress as I wanted to get it all down so I do not forget it and can really practice rest of month because it solves so many things for me . best Craig

 

[Paleo]

So if you are playing A7 D7 E7 yes you could just play box 1 over each at the 5th 10th and 12th fret

I tried to point out up above that while this approach works great over a minor progression you probably won't like it over the 3 Dom 7 chords.

Griff has demonstrated this on several occasions and has pointed out that while it "technically" works he's never heard anyone actually do it.

He even mentions it in his attached "cheat sheet".