Learning the major scales

[JOEFLANAGAN]

I just started with learning the major scales. It looks to me like the only way is just pure memorization. In my case, I find that if I don't use something every day in a practical way, like playing songs, I don't retain it. Is there a practical way to do this with the major scales besides rote memorization? It seems to me it would be like memorizing the multiplication tables and repeating them every day so you know them inside out. Is there a more practical, every day use of the major scales that can keep them fresh without every day recitation? How did you all do it?

 

[Paleo]

Are you asking about learning the names of the notes in each Major scale in general or learning Major scale patterns on the guitar?

Either way you can start by checking out Lesson 3 in Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful" course, "Major Keys and Scales".

Once you know how the C Major scale is constructed it's just a matter of seeing which notes need to be sharped or flatted as you go up or down in fifths respectively.

It will be much easier to see the changes from key following the Circle of 5ths as opposed to trying to learn your Major scales in a random order.

 

[Elio]

I just started with learning the major scales. It looks to me like the only way is just pure memorization. In my case, I find that if I don't use something every day in a practical way, like playing songs, I don't retain it. Is there a practical way to do this with the major scales besides rote memorization? It seems to me it would be like memorizing the multiplication tables and repeating them every day so you know them inside out. Is there a more practical, every day use of the major scales that can keep them fresh without every day recitation? How did you all do it?

It sounds like you are asking about memorizing the patterns on the guitar. Assuming that's the case, the easiest way for me to do it is to find a song in a major key that works with that scale and then play over it repeatedly. That also has the added benefit of giving you a sense of how it might be used to improvise. Another way to look at it is that the major scale is just a superset of the major pentatonic scale, so looking at it from that perspective, 5 of the 7 notes in the pattern overlap.

If you're asking about learning the notes, it's what @Paleo said.

 

[JOEFLANAGAN]

Learning the names of the notes in each major scale. Actually, I'm following Lesson three right now and that's what brought the question up. At this point, if someone gave me a chord progression to play in whatever key, I'd have to write the scale out on paper to see which ones are sharps or flats. Some are easy to remember, but others not so much.

 

[Paleo]

That's where going trough an exercise of following the circle of 5ths will show you how they are all related and the sharps and flats will become easier to remember, rather than having to apply the step formula each time.

From C Major to G Major you find you just need to sharp the "new" 7.

From G to D you keep the previous sharp and sharp the "new" 7.

Each time you go up a 5th you retain all the previous sharps and sharp the "new" 7.

Until you get to C# with all the notes sharped.

You'll eventually remember that G Major has one # and that's the 7, F#.

D has 2 #'s, the F# from G Major and now the "new" 7, C#.

Etc.


Going down in 5ths you flat the new 4,

Each 5th you go down you retain the previous flats and flat the 4.

Until you get to Cb with all the noted flatted.

F Major has one flat, the 4, Bb.

Bb Major has the Bb and the new 4, Eb.

Etc.


This may seem like a lot of work, but you really only need to go through it once.

You can go through this on paper, your guitar or a piano keyboard.

I first figured it out for myself on a piano.

I still can visualize how the black keys get added.


If you know the notes on the guitar you can figure this out by playing any Major scale pattern and playing that same pattern from all 12 possible root notes on the same string.

 

[dvs]

It might be a good time to jump ahead to Lesson 4, because there is some logic behind these scales that can help with getting them into your memory. Oh, and print yourself a copy of the Circle of Fifths and tape it to the wall where you practice. Here is a good one (same one Griff uses in GTMU): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

Get a handle on the order of the keys around the circle and the order in which the sharps and flats are added as you move around the circle. (This is still a lot like rote memorization, but it's a little more interesting.) Also understand that knowing these scales/keys/sharps/flats cold is not something you're going to get down in a few hours! However, every minute you spend on it will be worthwhile.

 

[MikeS]

Learning the names of the notes in each major scale. Actually, I'm following Lesson three right now and that's what brought the question up. At this point, if someone gave me a chord progression to play in whatever key, I'd have to write the scale out on paper to see which ones are sharps or flats. Some are easy to remember, but others not so much.

I think that you might be trying to make it harder than it has to be.
If you are just beginning to learn scales, just learn the patterns & root notes (Just start with box 1).
Start learning the pattern with, let's say A minor pentatonic, 6th string 5th fret (it COULD be any key).
Play box 1 minor pentatonic over every jam track you can find then add box 2, then 3....
Here's where it gets interesting/confusing because when you play the same box patterns but down 3 frets, you are now playing A Major pentatonic (all the same notes).
What you quickly realize is that you can now easily switch between the Major and the minor pentatonic scales by just changing the pattern that you are playing.
Play box 2 starting on the 6th string 5th fret A and you are playing A major pentatonic, which works great over the I chord.
Switch to Box 1 at the same 6th string 5th fret A and you are playing A minor pentatonic, which works perfectly over the IV & V chords.

 

[JOEFLANAGAN]

AH!!! OK. Thank you guys so much for your responses. It's like a light going on in the dark. It's funny, but I don't actually own Griff's theory course. I found lesson three somewhere in the Internet and figured I'd take a look at it. Obviously, it was just enough information to get me in trouble. I guess I know what my next purchase is going to be.

 

[JOEFLANAGAN]

Mike S., I was referring to the major scales in my original post.

 

[MikeS]

Mike S., I was referring to the major scales in my original post.

I know that , but I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Just my opinion... unless you already know the box patterns and are just trying to learn how to build a Major scale.

 

[sdbrit68]

I struggled, and struggled and made it much harder on myself than it needed to be. .............then got PTSM and did the exercises for the minor penatonic scale (Since you said major, can I assume you know minor ?). Once I had the minor scales down. I just figured out what majors go over the top, and since I knew the root notes for minor, it was easy, when I am in the same area of the fretboard, after a while , it becomes habit since when you go fast, there is no time to think

Example : Box 1 Minor is

5- 8
5-7
5-7
5-7
5-8
5-8

Box 2 minor
8-10
7-10
7-10
7-9
8-10
8-10

Major Penatonic (same fret spacings as Box 2 minor, same starting point box 1 minor)

5-7
4-7
4-7
4-6
5-7
5-7




What made it click for me, as we all seem to learn box 1 A-minor penatonic and rock the snot out of it, learning oh, A-major penatonic has the exact same starting place, and oh, and I can use box 2 shape right there of the Major.

Seems weird at first, but it stopped me over thinking it, and since I was overly comfortable with Box 1 minor, the transition mixing in major was easy, and I didnt have to look for the root notes.

Another neat trick, Say a blues in A, well, box 1 minor penatonic, also has box 4 of the D minor penatonic (which is also the IV chord), same starting point. and E minor penatonic , the V chord is box 3

It was easier for me to learn what boxes fit over each other than learning where everything is, again, of course meaning I knew the 5 shapes to begin with from A minor.................hopefully that makes sense

 

[Timothy W. Cook]

I just started with learning the major scales. It looks to me like the only way is just pure memorization. In my case, I find that if I don't use something every day in a practical way, like playing songs, I don't retain it. Is there a practical way to do this with the major scales besides rote memorization? It seems to me it would be like memorizing the multiplication tables and repeating them every day so you know them inside out. Is there a more practical, every day use of the major scales that can keep them fresh without every day recitation? How did you all do it?

Some interesting replies are here, but this is my take on the easiest way to remember the major scales.

This pattern applies to every major scale:

W-W-H-W-W-W-W-H

W == whole step/2 frets
H == half step/1 fret

This can also be written using the number of each scale degree which I find more intuitive:

R-2-3-4-5-6-7-R

Where R is the root of the scale.

To apply this to the fretboard, remember that the guitar is tuned in 4ths, except for the G to B strings which is a 3rd.

For the C Major scale, start on the root at the eighth fret on the low E string. The 2 is a D on the 10th fret, the 3 is E on the 12th fret but it is also on the 7th fret of the A string. The 4th is the F on the 8th fret of the A string. Take some time and get this association down pat. The 4th is the same fret as the root, one string higher. The 3rd is one fret back. Take this approach with each scale degree.

HTH,
Tim

 

[BraylonJennings]

Some interesting replies are here, but this is my take on the easiest way to remember the major scales.

This pattern applies to every major scale:

W-W-H-W-W-W-W-H

W == whole step/2 frets
H == half step/1 fret

This can also be written using the number of each scale degree which I find more intuitive:

R-2-3-4-5-6-7-R

Where R is the root of the scale.

To apply this to the fretboard, remember that the guitar is tuned in 4ths, except for the G to B strings which is a 3rd.

For the C Major scale, start on the root at the eighth fret on the low E string. The 2 is a D on the 10th fret, the 3 is E on the 12th fret but it is also on the 7th fret of the A string. The 4th is the F on the 8th fret of the A string. Take some time and get this association down pat. The 4th is the same fret as the root, one string higher. The 3rd is one fret back. Take this approach with each scale degree.

HTH,
Tim

Except I think you made a typo. It should be W-W-H-W-W-W-H. I usually reference the black keys on a piano if I need a reminder.

 

[PapaBear]

C w D w E h F w G w A w B h C Braylon is correct

 

[Paleo]

W-W-H-W-W-W-W-H

Four whole steps in a row should stick out like a sore thumb.

Or having 4 whole steps in any sequence.

Doesn’t ever happen in a diatonic scale.

Nor does having 8 intervals

I think in his excitement he just typed one too many W’s between the 4 and 7?

I think we can let it go.

 

[Timothy W. Cook]

Except I think you made a typo. It should be W-W-H-W-W-W-H. I usually reference the black keys on a piano if I need a reminder.

Oops! Too many W's. I had to look at it twice to see the mistake.
Yes, I reference the piano keyboard in my mind quite often. It's such a good visual.

 

[Timothy W. Cook]

Four whole steps in a row should stick out like a sore thumb.

Or having 4 whole steps in any sequence.

Doesn’t ever happen in a diatonic scale.

Nor does having 8 intervals

I think in his excitement he just typed one too many W’s between the 4 and 7?

I think we can let it go.

Maybe I should proofread my authoritative posts.

Thanks for letting it go, but I'm glad everyone caught it. It was supposed to help, and that certainly wasn't for someone that didn't already know.

 

[artyman]

As they say "Proof read carefully to see if you any words out"

 

[Griff]

Learning the names of the notes in each major scale. Actually, I'm following Lesson three right now and that's what brought the question up. At this point, if someone gave me a chord progression to play in whatever key, I'd have to write the scale out on paper to see which ones are sharps or flats. Some are easy to remember, but others not so much.

Another way to think of this... I never thought to try and memorize the notes of the major scales, it just happened because I analyzed so many songs that I eventually got to the point that I didn't have to write them out anymore, I just knew (and I found a couple of shortcuts that show up later in the course.)

If you memorize the major scales, but never use them and don't ever try to analyze things with them, you won't remember them and it's a waste of your time. Instead, learn ways to quickly figure out the notes in a major scale (either the WWHWWWH or the circle of 5ths or whatever) and consider it good enough.

 

[Elio]

Another way to think of this... I never thought to try and memorize the notes of the major scales, it just happened because I analyzed so many songs that I eventually got to the point that I didn't have to write them out anymore, I just knew (and I found a couple of shortcuts that show up later in the course.)

If you memorize the major scales, but never use them and don't ever try to analyze things with them, you won't remember them and it's a waste of your time. Instead, learn ways to quickly figure out the notes in a major scale (either the WWHWWWH or the circle of 5ths or whatever) and consider it good enough.

I've often wondered about that. I've always used the WWH... formula but always thought that I should have them memorized. Seeing all the combinations I've just never been able to figure out how to do that without expending a LOT of effort.