Stems?

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
what one fine helluva mess!!! :LOL:

Here and I thought I was bad coming up with 6 tracks just to do a guitar and mic. You are waaaayyyyy ahead of me on this stuff for sure!!! Looks amazing! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I tend to go overboard on recording. When it comes to a final mix, probably a third of the tracks won't be used. Using an Eleven Rack as an interface for guitar and bass gives me two separate tracks for each guitar or bass. One is a stereo track that has been processed by the Eleven Rack and will have amp and speaker cabinet sim and some effects (as if you were recording using microphones in from of your amp). The other is a mono track which is the dry guitar signal, the same as if you plugged the guitar directly into a conventional recording interface. That way, if the processed signal doesn't sound like I want it when I start mixing, I have the option of abandoning it (or augmenting it) and using the dry track and the amp sims that are built in my DAW (or Amplitube or Positive Grid or Kontact or other plug-ins) which provide for further sound modification. So by the time I have a rhythm, lead and bass guitar, I have 6 recorded tracks. If I double a rhythm track , there are another two.

LIke @sdbrit68 said, there may be up to 16 tracks for drums and percussion. Most drum software gives you the ability to output each individual drum, cymbal or other percussion as if it was recorded on it's own track so in the final mix you have full volume and tonal control over the kit.

Add in a couple of vocal tracks, one or two keyboards and it's pretty easy to get up to well over 20 tracks.

Just because you have access to all of these different channels doesn't mean you need to use them. But it also means you can try just about anything you like.
 

sdbrit68

Student Of The Blues
Naw it looks great! I was just flipping you a load. ;) Whatever it takes to get 'er done! Six for drums sounds like a starting point Mark!:Beer:
just wait until I get @Elio to teach me how to play Congas, then let the games begin.

hmmmmmm, I wonder if there are youtube lessons on Cowbell
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
just wait until I get @Elio to teach me how to play Congas, then let the games begin.

hmmmmmm, I wonder if there are youtube lessons on Cowbell

Last month I got a conga lesson and recording tips from Yanni's percussionist, who I discovered lives nearby and is a fellow CSUN alumnus, so I think I'm good to go! I usually record with one mic per drum (3) plus one mic at each end of the chimes so that I can pan them ascending from left to right. During my lesson, he made the suggestion to go with a single suspended large diaphragm condenser mic in place of the individual drum-mounted SM57's that I usually use, so that will be my next thing to try. Good point regarding the cowbell, though. At my next lesson, I will need to ask him how many mics he recommends for that :unsure:

 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
Here's a slightly newer version of the Stems vid:

Remember...this is just about terminology:
If you and your partner always refer to a hammer as a wrench….it has no consequences.
But if you need a plumber and he asks for a wrench and you give him a hammer, things won’t turn out very well.

You just described my experience with music theory and most people I talk with so perfectly :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
what one fine helluva mess!!! :LOL:

Here and I thought I was bad coming up with 6 tracks just to do a guitar and mic. You are waaaayyyyy ahead of me on this stuff for sure!!! Looks amazing! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I wish I had a photo of the Pro Tools screen when we recorded our last album...

Drums:
Kick,
Snare top
Snare bottom
hi tom
mid tom
floor tom
hi hat
ride
overhead left
overhead right
room left
room right

Bass
Guitar X 3 or 4 depending on how many takes I did of each tune or section

vocals (again, usually a few in case I liked one pass better on a verse or chorus)

Bari Sax
Tenor Sax
Trombone
Trumpet

Keys L
Keys R
and those 2 tracks would be 3 or 4 deep, again for choosing parts.

It was a giant 30 inch screen or more, and the tracks just rolled off the bottom, and yet that engineer worked around it like it was nothing.
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
Thanks. That will lead me to much more angst.
"Am I using the correct term to describe this?"
"Will the other party think me an idiot if I use the wrong term?"
"What if the other guy uses different terminology?"
"What if they use a DAW that's different from mine and don't understand what I want?"
"What if they send me raw tracks?"

Seriously though, thanks, CM. I've marked it in my Recordings playlist on YT.
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
I wish I had a photo of the Pro Tools screen when we recorded our last album...

Drums:
Kick,
Snare top
Snare bottom
hi tom
mid tom
floor tom
hi hat
ride
overhead left
overhead right
room left
room right

Bass
Guitar X 3 or 4 depending on how many takes I did of each tune or section

vocals (again, usually a few in case I liked one pass better on a verse or chorus)

Bari Sax
Tenor Sax
Trombone
Trumpet

Keys L
Keys R
and those 2 tracks would be 3 or 4 deep, again for choosing parts.

It was a giant 30 inch screen or more, and the tracks just rolled off the bottom, and yet that engineer worked around it like it was nothing.
Drum tracks is one of those things that really was a suprised to me when I began diving into recording and mixing.
Prior to that, my view of drums was pretty simple; they are loud and one or two mics would be about all you need.
In a way, I guess you could compare it to an electric guitar, in that, on many guitars each string has it's own pickup pole.....Right?
So each piece of the kit gets it's own mic plus a few more just to fill the space.

For a while, I would frequently mic my amp and have a close mic on the guitar as well.
I stopped doing that but, I do usually use two mics on the amp these days.
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
Drum tracks is one of those things that really was a suprised to me when I began diving into recording and mixing.
While digging through videos for my new interface/mixer I watched one where the guy was talking about using delay on snare and kick so as to not cause the bleed through signal on overheads to partially cancel the dedicated mics. He was talking mainly about live sound reinforcement, but it applies equally to recording. He was working with a tape measure and measuring the distance from the dedicated mic to the OH and calculating the difference. I didn't save the link, but I'll try and find it again. He was talking about a millisecond or two making the difference between the kick and snare sounding rich and full to it sounding weak and hollow, because of the phase differential caused by different distances between each drum and the two mics.

It makes me happier that all my drums are in the box.
 

Elwood

Blues
yet that engineer worked around it like it was nothing.
That pretty much says it right there :)

sounding weak and hollow, because of the phase differential caused by different distances between each drum and the two mics.
funny, I just ran into the same thing. I was messing mixing and I muted one mic channel and viola! the sound was better with one mic off! Logic Pro has a gain plug in that has a phase button (I just betcha all DAWs have a phase button somewhere). I loaded that plug in and hit the phase button and the difference was immediate. This brings the question of how far out of phase were the mics? If they are not 180 out of phase to each other then all you do is guess and compromise (with my stuff and my current skills). My quick fix is I will not be using more than one hot mic at one time No problem!
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
While digging through videos for my new interface/mixer I watched one where the guy was talking about using delay on snare and kick so as to not cause the bleed through signal on overheads to partially cancel the dedicated mics. He was talking mainly about live sound reinforcement, but it applies equally to recording. He was working with a tape measure and measuring the distance from the dedicated mic to the OH and calculating the difference. I didn't save the link, but I'll try and find it again. He was talking about a millisecond or two making the difference between the kick and snare sounding rich and full to it sounding weak and hollow, because of the phase differential caused by different distances between each drum and the two mics.

It makes me happier that all my drums are in the box.
I think I saw that same vid.
As @Elwood said, phase cancellation is something to be aware of when using more than one mic on a single source.
Afterall, that's how noise cancelling headphones do their magic, they produce the exact same sound with a reversed phase.
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
Drum tracks is one of those things that really was a suprised to me when I began diving into recording and mixing.
Prior to that, my view of drums was pretty simple; they are loud and one or two mics would be about all you need.
In a way, I guess you could compare it to an electric guitar, in that, on many guitars each string has it's own pickup pole.....Right?
So each piece of the kit gets it's own mic plus a few more just to fill the space.

For a while, I would frequently mic my amp and have a close mic on the guitar as well.
I stopped doing that but, I do usually use two mics on the amp these days.
And here's what's funny...

One year at NAMM when it was fun (before the internet came along and wiped it out) the Trident (mixers) people had one of their new mixers setup and you could play with it...

The tracks you could mix were the ORIGINAL multi-tracks from Stevie Wonder's "Superstition!"

8 tracks in total
kick, overhead drums, vocals, bass, keys, various horns on remaining tracks.

Sounded SOOOO good. You don't need the high track count if the source sounds great :)

They were probably so happy I left after an hour or so :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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