How to use triads - target chord tones and play back and forth and in between chord tones

[CraigHollander]

All

When I got into this topic on Feb 1st triggered by once again finding the 1 "video" that opened up my mind I made some post and lost all of you I am sure. I have kept at it to make it simpler for me and to share to all who can really use this. Starting this thread for this topic only .

-The goal is in the thread title
-The materials are in griff course tying to bring multiple parts together in a way that will be an easy system to use.

Please confirm I have none of the below basics wrong because based on some comment yesterday you all were not fully understanding me. We need to be in agreement on these simple points to get to the cage modes triads solution and more important how to easily actually use it all to play.

1- What scale we use to play in any genre is determined by the chords . Ex it is not blues per Griff if not Dom 7 or minor (more later on this) So we all know when we see those chords what scales we are going to use for pure blues and sometimes as in Modern Blues soloing course which modes that will work best along with pentatonic.

2- We dont always play in minor . Griff states playing major over 1 chord is a step up to sounding professional. It is not always required but it sounds good. Major Minor course

3- This is important when we switch from minor pentatonic to major pentatonic and back we are still using the same backing chords . We are switching from minor pentatonic to major pentatonic scale over same chord progression.

4- The other way to look at things is not thinking box but knowing the roots on all 6 string of your key and then playing left or right major or minor sounds and patterns This is soloing without scales course

5 Essential Blues Chords course show all the Dom 7 chords as well as .... non Dom plain minor chords that can be used

6- The ability to "target the changes " " Play over the changes" and target the triads 1 3 5 take solos to next level. You can not do it but if you want to sound even better ......

7 and # 6 The final thing after looking at all Griff courses that will improve you soloing skills and ability to play back and forth between chords ex Little Wing ex SRV Mary had a little lamb does have to do with understanding CAGE and how it applies not only to non blues chords but to blues chords. I hated cage most people do. They say they dont need it they can do by the root or the boxes. They also hate even more understanding modes and think nothing to do with blues. I now have to disagree. As many instructors say there are many roads to same destination but taking a shortcut may not be bad idea? This is why the boxes and cage type systems have been used forever right?

What I needed was to see how it all fits together how to use all of it easily without thinking . Although I have to practice it I think I have the understanding down. Its not magic The info is in Griff course but.. its from a just different way of presenting and thinking about it focused on using for blues specifically.

Let's keep this focused for a second. Guys just respond yes or no if the basics I listed above you agree with or if no what is not correct then I will send out how I just in 48 hours after years of trying avoiding triads tone targeting modes and caged ,its now really sinking in and usable on getting how to play with the chord tones target and move between solos and chords.

P.S one typo yesterday in my text set off mass confusion I hope that I have no mistakes this time.

Best

The Scientist

 

[CraigHollander]

As I watch TV I went back to Griff course to compare what I wrote down about how I suddenly just got this in less than 4 days. I think it comes down to the same info I am going to pass on tomorrow are in Griffs course but... the course is 50 pages what I had so far was 1 text that would fill 1 page tops and a pdf of charts I was going to do the rest of it tomorrow clock in at 2 pages max. Griffs courses are perfection but I look at this one for example as initially a bit overwhelming every single possible caged thing you can know is in there. I realized from last 3 days the other thing of why I bounce back and forth using griffs course while locating "the video " that gives me the aha moment is the ones that have done it give just enough info to get me to the point of understanding and to be able to not only understand but then a path to execute equals as concise . I call them mental shortcuts .You see now that everything in Griff 50 pages makes sense but not when I 1st tried to go at it.

Griff no offense meant. I keep saying you are my number 1 blues guy and the greatest teacher of blues period. You are the reason I started up for my 3rd and final life attempt at guitar . I can only say when approaching and trying to learn fast sometimes the saying think small is very important. Take a look tomorrow how my mind locked in and organized just what I needed to grasp . I can now get a ton more from your Caged course on your site.

LOL to ALL

The Scientist

 

[CraigHollander]

Summary of Griff Course on Caged its all there but later I am just going to present to you all the same material in a different way that helped me to grasp and start implementing CAGED in 3 hours spread over 3 days after lifetime of not being able to do it. Same system I have used since Dec 19th and more progress than I ever thought possible on guitar finally. I am 100% still now that I get it using the Griff course to go even deeper.

In the intro to course he sums it up perfectly in the what it can do for you and what it cant do for you.

1- basic shapes

2- Section on Connecting the shapes page 7-8

3- page 10 shows a chart " if my I caged shape is this what is IV and V caged shape "

2-On page 12 he has a chart showing if using root on this string caged shape (not chord) is this and Minor shape is this (not chord )both left and right . Soloing without scales Concept as Shapes without Scales .

3- he has a section alterations to arrive at substitution chords minor chords etc chart page 45

4- Every single related arpeggio and how to finger them until page 45 . So this section is maybe 40% of the 50 pages.

5- Page 48 and 49 is the 1st and not sure but maybe most important thing I did . Reorder The cage shapes to match how we order the major and minor pentatonic.

Minor
Box. 1 2 3 4 5
Shape. E D C A G

Major
Box 2 3 4 5 1
Shape E D C. A G

 

[CraigHollander]

All

When on Feb 1 I had the next level of a guitar awakening that started on Dec 19th 2023 that has brought me in so little time more progress then in a lifetime. I developed a method that I use to get from point a to b that I refer to as practice with purpose. How I learned CAGED in 3 days 1 hour a day of effort is shocking even to me. I needed to write this all down to make sure I can refer back and have it straight and so I am going to attach my how to pdf and links below to the videos I found that opened my mind.

Please do not watch the video 1st if you want to learn this and use it please read all pages in order follow the instructions dont jump around. 5 whole pages and page 6 is comments about highlight from each video. That it. If you have questions text me . Keep this thread clean only about this subject to not confuse people who are reading it looking for help.

Read the intro to why this will take you quick to an expert level of playing.

Also realize this will compliment using the BGU course material on CAGED. You will also see that many things are the same info reorganized both in my pdf and in the video but ... realize that of the 50 pages are all diagrams and then Griff instructs on the videos that fine but what I did is to narrow the scope my PDF is 5 pages of charts and my instructions are 6. This is because I focuses on using caged for I IV V 12 bar blues only in minor pentatonic to demo the method. So you can learn faster with small vs large. However once you learn it the diagrams in Griffs course are the ultimate resource for shapes both chords and arpeggios and you should also listen to all his advice on videos. I just approached it from as if I or you know nothing about this want to know why learn why people have problems with it and a fast cheat sheet to do it that makes sense.

How do I know ? Because I did it in 3 days?

Instructions simple

Open the how to document and the Chart PDF
Do not random look at the chart just keep on page 1 and follow the exact instructions or it will not work for you.
Do not view the videos until you have followed to end of the 5 pages and arrive at page 6 list of videos if you do you are going to screw it all up.

Questions text on this thread will answer.

This is going to be real interesting. We have newbies we have old timers who know parts or maybe all of this stuff . I can take any comments made and value feedback on this.


good Luck

 

[CraigHollander]

P. S VIDEOS WILL BE ADDED TOMORROW. I have to check the order again and ... dont want people skipping ahead to videos without reading the material it won't work that way.

 

[TexBill]

Craig, at this junction in my guitar learning journey, I don't know if I agree or disagree with what you are laying down.

There simply are not enough hours in a day or days in a week/month for me to digest all that you have absorbed in such a short amount of time. I am referring to Dec. 19th that you bring up periodically......

With that said, I most likely will never have the opportunity to gaze upon all the materials you reference. I am just too old to even contemplate the possibility of reaching such lofty goals as you have established for yourself....

Good luck reaching whatever level you desire..........

 

[CraigHollander]

Tex totally understand . I put it up because the forum has endless discussion about each thing separate in many ways that melds into 1 through this method. The other reason is I have watched the boards since I first joined BGU over 3 years ago in silence. It was somewhat comforting over and over to hear the stories about people multiple tries at guitar giving up over and over only to come back and have it happen again just like me but.... I dont believe in misery loves company...

I had to find a way forward this time and break the curse.

Depending on the reaction I get from this PDF and video post on this subject I will either continue to help or I will just go to periodic check in and enjoy some back and forth while I head towards hitting my goals at warp speed.

I am not the best player nor the best teacher nor claiming to be I just figured out Since the date I use as Day 1 Dec 19th how to learn and absorb and execute quickly . Since BGU is a how to play guitar course maybe how you learn the material and practice is the most important 1st thing to becoming a real player ?

P. S I am 58 and although you may be older than I am not young. My wife wants to kill me she cant understand why I am so damn happy since Dec 19th but anyone here who has lived with this guitar obsession and loves blues rock and roll etc does get it . I keep saying small not large. You say you cant but I believe you can. You will be so happy every time you practice and improve I can say it has changed my outlook on so much.

Whatever is best for you . Thanks for response. Good Luck and Play on!

Thank you all for understanding

The Scientist

 

[Jay Dee]

I just like to play. I understand most of what you are presenting, but over thinking is ..........harmful to my brain. Everyone has a different mental image.

 

[CraigHollander]

Hi Jay

No offense taken but... it's actually only 4 pages of instructions a few charts and the videos coming tomorrow which after reading those few pages would click you or anyone in.Just watching the video won't . It's the opposite of overthinking and to much info to fast. that is the whole point of it? I agree with you on whatever makes you happy and whatever method works for you... Good Luck !

 

[AnthonySavoie220]

Good job mapping that out. Seriously. I dont know how long it took you to put that all together, either understanding it or mapping it out, but good job.

That sh!t took me nearly 30 years to figure out on my own. The trick is applying it

 

[CraigHollander]

Anthony

Thank you for the kind words I am doing it for the many like me and you my guitar brothers.

It took me about 6 hours to really make sure I laid it out as best I could.

I also did for me so I never forget how to do it.

Now as to applying I got you tomorrow.

When the short video comes up you can take all in the chart and pdf and will be applying it fast and hard tasty.

When you noodle you will be saying wait a minute why the hell do I sound so much better?

I was doing just a little today almost cried.

Please make sure you really understand the concepts I put in pdf and the how the charts all fit together before watching videos.

FYI The videos are not a course they are just luck that I stumbled upon and I collected from like 90 videos on all different guitar subjects the guy put on YouTube the ones on our current topic. After you feel you are fully understanding and applying all the tons of Griff material will make sense and listen to his videos on the subject for more insights . Like my PDF they are each no more then 10 minutes long if that .

It's going to blow your mind.. Thanks again for kind words.

 

[ervjohns]

Craig, I admire your enthusiasm and effort in making this model, I am confused on page 1 you show left to right EM E Box 1 and Aolean shape on the first line and then you say the second line is inversions but the root note on all those is D not E. There are some formatting issues that don't take away from your message but may be an unwanted distraction.

Erv

 

[CraigHollander]

Hi Erv

I will clear this up in a heartbeat for you but are you speaking about what I wrote in the cheat pdf or the 1st line charts pdf ?

 

[ervjohns]

Hi Erv

I will clear this up in a heartbeat for you but are you speaking about what I wrote in the cheat pdf or the 1st line charts pdf ?

the chart second line first page

 

[CraigHollander]

I think you are speaking of the charts?

Good question to make sure everyone understands clear

1st line all to the left is

-100% yes a Em chord that we all know and love it is where the other 3 boxes are built off its far left it says yes Em but......

-the second box do not think of like a chord because as you see it now looks different because it has added what is called the bottom or lower b3
you notice it now looks almost like Box 1 Pentatonic . Its the E shape not chord it says E shape make sure you are on 1st page of pdf

-Then we have box 1 Pentatonic and here is where we add the 4th and b7 which are not triads which we want to target. notice it is not called E it is just called position 1

-Minor scale that we all know and love as Aeolian not called E called position 1 (meaning of minor scale)

Okay more below but realize all

You just hit on one of the 3 things that I said in pdf screws people up with this technique. This is why no matter what I am learning I set the goals and then find the problems holding me back and then find any material any way possible to solve the problem like am about to do for you then and only then do I start applying to playing. If you work that is Focus Practice with Purpose and you are going to love your gains.

Ready ?

The EM chord has nothing to do with say a blues in G which is. G7 C7 and D7 . It is shown because it is where the E shape comes from . The E shape contains is movable , Box 1 you know is moveable and so is Aeolian the Minor scale . It does have to do with types of blues soloing that use minor modes especially dorian and aeolian. I mentioned the need to grasp standard 12 bars blues before ways to use this but its why em chord and e minor aeolian are mentioned are connected and shown along Box 1 minor pentatonic they go together when soling with minor chords.

Think this . The chord determine the scales you use. The Blues sound the feeling of the blues is dom 7 chords against major and minor pentatonic which we are starting here with only minor they project feeling of downbeat sad or upbeat happy.

-No matter what key you are in over the 1 chord for now we are going to use Box 1 as you have seen in other Griff courses.
-If you put your finger on the A on the 6th string and make the E Shape every one of the notes in that E shape will blend with the chord better and later you can learn when best to hit them because it only contains the triad 1 b3 5 it is a map.
-You also play Box 1 based on the 6th string root .
-You basically slide all 3 The E shape, Box 1 and if we were using aeolian minor mode that as well . The root note on the 6th string tells you what blues key you are in
-The E shape Boxis always called the E shape no matter what key you are in. Box 1 is just a pattern its box 1 in the key of A . A minor Aeolian is also just a pattern but usually we call it by the 6th string root so A minor at 5th fret C minor at 8th fret .

Each of the 5 shapes the 5 boxes and 5 minor scales will have a match Thats why I put 1 page for each group it never changes you just slid it up and down to be in the blues key you want.

Do not attempt to use minor yet just learn to see the shape within the Box only work box 1 and 4 for now Please.

The 2nd line triad and inversions is not labeled at all it is generic another way to just think those 3 patterns within the E shape while playing box 1 and boom soon you just feel without thinking where the 1 b3 and the 5 are at any moment . make sure you see those triad shapes in the E shape and in box 1 and the additional triangle I put in the pdf notes.

This will be all more clear in videos but you see why I said get the basic idea 1st in your head so the videos help[ even more not hurt the effort.

Tell me if you get this now. Take your guitar and play the box 1 3rd fret thats g slide it up to 8th fret your starting 1 chord is now c but the pattern is the same and you still see the E shape inside of the box and the minor scale is still right there as well but now its C minor.

To make sure people get this all important concept is why I specifically said now lets think of a A7 D7 E7 blues not one that starts on E7

I knew of sure someone would inquire and thus help the group to get it under control.

Thank you this will clear it up for everyone who is reading posts

 

[ervjohns]

Craig,

in the document you say:
E- Look at row 2 this is from left
All triads in Em and then the 3 inversions by note in bass (lowest position) hold that thought go to next step.

If these are E triads did you not mean them the start on the 10th fret? Everything on page 1 of the chart pertains to the E but these diagrams in the second line of the chart have a D root as shown

Tell me (briefly) if I am missing something

Erv

 

[ervjohns]

Are you saying it doesn't matter what frets, they are all e shaped constructs? If that is the case just don't label frets on your diagrams.

 

[CraigHollander]

Okay perfect I mentioned we would find a few errors. That line should be

All triads in the Em Shape. This Em shape cut into 3 parts . it should say Em Shape not chord.
Since EM shape is not a chord it is just to show you when you that instead of memorizing millions of formulas for all the scales and triads its all based on Chord shapes that can be moved up and down to change keys .

So its not a E triad

Take the 1st 3 note part put. the root on A on 4th string 7th fret you have the 5 as the lowest tone and the bass and its a A triad but if you move the same pattern down 2 frets to 9th fret B triad . look at the one to right same root position put root is now lowest or bass position of 3 and finally A on the 1st string root the b3 is in the bass now see how all 3 are inside the E shape but the triad is determined by what note you put the R root on.

So also look at the triangle in pdf

most know where box 1 roots are on 6-4 -1 right. Now you have a few ways to see the triads tones b3 and 5 relative to the root you already know visually instead of thinking. My man that is how you are going to be able to execute smooth and natural.

You visualize the whole E shape inside box 1 which is alway E shape you visualize the triads in 3 sections which will allow you to do all kinds of stuff later (we are not into the applying stage yet until tomorrow) you also have the triangle which tells you something very important
The 5th is always right to the left of R so how easy is that to remember? The b3 is always to the right 1 string over and 2 frets up.

The whole thing is about visualizing a few easy things rather then studying TMI problem 2 forever and not being able to see the musical connections between chords scales and feelings. Thats why someone developed this system but see tomorrow video its taught wrong it gets students nuts and they drop trying and struggle. You have to start small and grasp the 5 pages of pdf and then do videos and I assure you you are going to love it.

If you dont get it dont be shy keep asking me questions by getting you there we get everyone on the board there right at the beginning.


b7 b3

5 R 4

 

[ervjohns]

Got it
thanks

 

[CraigHollander]

Ah I catch now what is confusing you.

The chord is actually has fret numbers it should not. I cut and pasted so the may be why another catch will fix and resend without when able .
That looks like a dm chord root 6th string due to the label if frets I need to resend out fixed thank you