How to use triads - target chord tones and play back and forth and in between chord tones

[Paleo]

When you play Am not A7 Straight Am you can solo over that with aeolion pattern with root 6 position say A you can also solo it with A minor pentatonic box 1. Remember what I keep saying the chord determines the scales you use.

The chord's function determines the scale.

If Am is a vi chord you would play A Aeolian = Key of C Major

If its a ii you would play A Dorian = Key of G Major

If its a iii you would play A Phrygian = Key of F Major

Or A minor pentatonic in any Box if you don't know.

If you know a Major scale pattern you can play any of the 7 modes in that key in that one pattern.

As well as the pentatonic boxes within that pattern.

 

[Elio]

Elio you just hit on the disconnect that you all have. Not a bad thing we are getting somewhere finally. Griff explains why. in chord by chord soloing. You are mostly soloing over all 3 chords using the 5 boxes of the key 6 string root
many just in box 1 and 2 He says nothing wrong with that but there are other ways. To play over
A7 DT E7

Griff shows it in the chord by chord soloing. what I illustrate in a few pages and the Vancouver video guy champions.

so to get clear do what I asked papa to do. got to the chart of root 6 string box f in A and see where all the notes are and which notes they are and there are charts that show the I b3 and 5th.

You will see clearly when you move it to same pattern but from 5th root things change .

The reason people like soloing by the 6rth string root is yes every box same notes and you can play over each chord Grif says not perfect but hard to sound bad the easiest solution. However there is another way. You want to play not only the chord of A7 D7 and E7 but have a system to keep it all close in to each other while using a pattern that has all the D& triad chord tones E7 triad chord tones so you can find them the fragment chords the double stops the I b3 5 fast and easy through shapes.

What the Vancouver guy is saying and I dont want this argument again I share his opinion there is value in knowing scales but I can teach my son to do this all through shapes and very little memorization he has to know the 5th and 6th string notes and then automatically you know the 1st string notes which is half neck as you use other chords with 2 3 4 root the system works the same way and you will naturally learn the names of the notes and more important where the triads are .... the shapes that is what chord by chord and 'caged is no one including me until feb 1 gets this . but when you do fully get it .... its going to help you massive.

Not opposed to any other way but guess what here is another video why you should cheat on guitar from same guy. You have to wonder after 14 years teaching why would he make it? Because of all the pushback to change of viewpoint he gets from people because they think its hard to get down its not once you put it all together and practice it or not worth their time as they go on playing only minor pentatonic box 1 . When could at this you want to play a lick that fits in box 3 over D7 not with this you know how to find the shape that matches box 3 you see the root I matched it for yiou on PDF and boom there you go . I am starting just to practice it now for test of month limited to not get overwhelmed its taken 10 days to get it al straight in my head.

No one right way but clearly Griff has not one but 2 courses talking about it why I never see people discuss in 3 years reading the forum?

Show me that griff is not considering it an important part of guitar.? He made 2 courses about it? I did what it sounds like all of you did for the whole 3 years I had access to course I ignored it . This is what I mean by being able to utilize all griff offers from 1st day beginner to guy trying but can play whole life me it involve a fresh perspective on practice learning and open mind . Elio you and PapaBear and papa raptor are starting to see it today . If you regulars can see it you are going to help so many lurkers who read but dont post as well as those who come on sad and angry they cant get it . All I want to do is play the damn thing for real and develop a way to learn it that is fast .

We all cheat at guitar (and you should too!)

Why you need to learn this trick to make your chord switches faster and more fluid. Join guitar teacher from Vancouver Blue Morris on this short video about ...

www.youtube.com

Now I'm really confused. I don't think I have a disconnect about the fact that I can that I can solo using the minor pentatonic of the I chord over the entire progression, or that I can use the respective major pentatonic scales over each respective chord of the progression, and/or that I can use chord tones and triads for the respective chords within the progression. My question is still why would the same pentatonic notes played over box 4 not sound good over the IV chord? I may be also missing something because I'm not sure which PDF you're referring to.

 

[CraigHollander]

Paleo ummm yeah I know that as if I count in F major Ionian to dorian to Phrygian as per above .However the shape major Phrygian is different then then the shape of aeolian no same notes with a new tone center thats all it is but when played against the chord it creates a feeling a sound that is all it is nothing more complicated then that .


Griff did a whole course on... Caged which lets you play chords by every root piostion based on ... shapes. That shape is then linked to a chord family and not just to the caged chords also to F and B and every other chord hs shapes in every family it works and it also the shape links to the 5 pentatonic shapes and also it links to the major and minor and every alteration .

I dont have to be overwhelmed by modes. You can find it through the shape without memorizing a million formulas
Which as Vancouver guy says is likely reason 1 of losing people TMI.

I never said your wrong I am saying there are different methods and yours many try and sort of drop out that is fact so they never seen the potential it is not one way or another its both ways when needed minor pentatonic the whole time or dorian bb box Its based on the sound they want this type of playing is for a specific style that it works better in and to open up the fretboard to people who could never learn its actually easier but not taught the easy way. That is the problem.

You are not bad because you dont get it but I wish you would just stop trying to convince me when Griff has 2 courses about this . If you just say I dont get the point fine even though I put page 1 all the things you can do with it and learn quickly Even you dont like the sounds fine play your way but people have problem with basic chord tone targeting which is playing over changes Just because minor pentatonic can almost never go wrong just playing random licks whithout though to the chords is not good either so some need to open their head like I did to other methods of thinking

 

[CraigHollander]

Per Griff chord to chord soling

Before you move on, though, I think it’s important to realize and understand that what we’ve talked about in this course can be a great addition to what you’re already doing, or it can be your primary soloing approach by itself.
Chord tones will never fail you... if you follow the notes in the chord being played right now you are guaranteed to play notes that will sound the most appropriate.
However, don’t forget that we are playing the blues, and the blues fundamentally revolves around the minor blues scale, not arpeggio patterns like we’ve discussed.
So, remember that, if you want to sound more traditional, stick to more traditional approaches (like the minor pentatonic scale.) By doing that, those times when you “step outside” and use an arpeggio or something a little fancier really stick out and make an impact.

Per griff from cage course

You will love the last line

 

[Paleo]

the shape major Phrygian is different then then the shape of aeolian no same notes with a new tone center thats all it is

There's no such thing as major Phrygian.

In any one key the notes of Aeolian and Phrygian are exactly the same and can be played within the same "box"pattern.

Changing the tonal center within the Key creates a different mode,

It doesn't change any of the notes in the key.


Phrygian in a different key would have different notes but it would still be based on the iii chord in that key and could be played in any of the 5 boxes as defined by Griff or the 7 Boxes defined by others.

 

[CraigHollander]

Elio

- when you play A7 D7 and E7 The I IV V and you have box 1 minor penatonic starting 5th fret 6th sting root you then proceed down the neck play the other 4 boxes all based on 6 string root. Okay when you do that all the notes stay the same and we build licks based on the I b3 and 5 of A in each box . Works the best to to sound connected because of the notes in the triad of A blend best against the IV and V chord but as Griff said not perfect because we want to highlight the changes play over the changes by hitting each chords tones. You could just use that and try to find the arpeggios and chord tones missing from the D7 and E& to target them but it will be difficult especially arpeggios. You need to shift pattern to box 4 to do it easily by shape not even knowing the notes as griff says. Of course we will know the notes but I could teach my son to do this by shape only thats why it's cool.

You have to know the above first . Tell me if you get that so far? If yes see below

Look at attached chart . Now think in your mind putting the box 4 notes and pattern on now see that the notes do change and the position of the I b3 and 5 also move they are not the same because the triad of Dm is different then that of Am so this is why it doesnt sound good when you dont do the next step.

You want to think of it now focused as D root b3 and 5 as Griff says start out beginning and ending on root later try to target the other 2 tones and make sure you playing licks that fit the pattern you are working with . If you do this it sounds good. Make D the tone center when playing a lick not A .

Thats how it works this is what he is doing in the Vancouver videos I sent out this is what is in caged and chord to chord that griff deep into

Griff has made soloing without scales for a reason its all tied together by root position and is easier to comprehend We all learned old school way Griff presents all of it and its all there as I demonstrated but I think most are lost about how it all fits together like I was and when this clear and it will for you in next few days I think you will know I aint crazy. Best C

 

[CraigHollander]

There's no such thing as major Phrygian.

In any one key the notes of Aeolian and Phrygian are exactly the same and can be played within the same "box"pattern.

Changing the tonal center within the Key creates a different mode,

It doesn't change any of the notes in the key.


Phrygian in a different key would have different notes but it would still be based on the iii chord in that key and could be played in any of the 5 boxes as defined by Griff or the 7 Boxes defined by others.

You just live to argue I didnt say major Phrygian I said the 3rd degree of major scale is Phrygian
1st Ionian 2nd dorian etc 3rd Phrygian minor that is what said

Yeah and changing the tonal center in major minor modes scales doesnt change notes . I didnt say that either I said moving pattern of box 4 to 5th string root changes the position of the root that box is a string 5 box so the tonal center becomes D .

Griff says it in course .

Keep trying the gotcha I can go all night or ... try to learn something new .

This is all because you are not willing to look at things from a new perspective supported by Griff thats fine but your hurting the group who now sees griff did 2 courses on this and are trying to understand it .

 

[PapaRaptor]

There's no such thing as major Phrygian.

In any one key the notes of Aeolian and Phrygian are exactly the same and can be played within the same "box"pattern.

Changing the tonal center within the Key creates a different mode,

It doesn't change any of the notes in the key.


Phrygian in a different key would have different notes but it would still be based on the iii chord in that key and could be played in any of the 5 boxes as defined by Griff or the 7 Boxes defined by others.

That's the way I've always understood it to be.

 

[PapaRaptor]

You just live to argue I didnt say major Phrygian I said the 3rd degree of major scale is Phrygian
1st Ionian 2nd dorian etc 3rd Phrygian minor that is what said

Ummm...

Paleo ummm yeah I know that as if I count in F major Ionian to dorian to Phrygian as per above .However the shape major Phrygian is different then then the shape of aeolian no same notes with a new tone center thats all it is but when played against the chord it creates a feeling a sound that is all it is nothing more complicated then that .

And Phrygian is a minor mode, not major.

 

[Paleo]

I didnt say major Phrygian

scales doesnt change notes . I didnt say that either

You did say both of those things. Otherwise I couldn't have quoted you in my reply.

Once again you say I live to argue when I reply to what you said.

Now you're backtracking and saying you said something different when anyone can look and see what you actually said.

Paleo ummm yeah I know that as if I count in F major Ionian to dorian to Phrygian as per above .However the shape major Phrygian is different then then the shape of aeolian no same notes with a new tone center thats all it is but when played against the chord it creates a feeling a sound that is all it is nothing more complicated then that .

 

[PapaRaptor]

Jack booted thug mode is engaged. This thread is locking down.