If you would have to start again…

[PeterSchroeder]

… from scratch, but with all your experience from playing the guitar for x years (decades ?), how would you approach it now ?

Background - when I first picked up a guitar about four or five years ago, I had no clue what I really wanted and how diverse this could be. I wanted to try something I never did before (music), see how it goes, maybe play a couple of cool riffs. Then I realized how many different paths there are. Learned this and that, some power chord riffs, some melodies, started venturing into blues and love it. Always loved listening to blues and blues rock. Then tried acoustic because I mainly play for myself. Now I am at a point where I can do some pieces from lots of different areas, but nothing where I am good at. Asking myself whether concentrating on one thing for some time would help me…

 

[CraigHollander]

Good Morning

When it comes to guitar I think what you are describing is exactly what I have been ranting about on these boards for last month or since 1st post. You have discovered one of the primary reasons for people needlessly giving up. I have been there 2x in my life once as a teen 4-5 year attempt guys shooting by me to pro level and many dropping it I could find no one to explain what you are describing so I dropped and again 1-2 years at 30. Found Griff started to open my mind but was heading to knowing more but not after 3 years being able to do what I wanted on Guitar and In last month made more progress than in all my attempts combine .

You have answered your own and a very important question.

Yes you need to decide what you want to learn. Set Goal

Yes you need to know how to effectively practice.

How you practice you , Focus and Attention to Detail is why some people after 4 years can play Madison Square Garden but most cant.

Good news is anyone can do it and anyone who has been doing it ineffectively can self correct. All you have to do is really want to get real about it.

Example of how I set very specific goals 6 weeks ago and what I did about it.

1- I want to play full song of strumming through on acoustic or electric without tab. I want it to sound professional.

Griff specifically has courses Guitar Rythym Mastery. I had Gone through it and understood it and it literally had all the techniques to know but I felt to do this I need a collection of strumming only acoustic guitar tab of popular songs that if friends came over I could pick up guitar and play. I was sick of people seeing the guitar at house asking me play something and me not wanting to do it. So I knew trying to initially blast a complicated song and solo for friends not best idea. I hit the net where 99% of Tab is crap and found ... 2 acoustic sites that have every strumming song you could want on them . Using what I learned from Griff and applying to these songs many based on "the worlds greatest Strum" and maybe 2 other strums. I started sounding good and playing songs straight through. To Memorize I found if I start a Word doc to collect songs I learn and just write down the order of section ... intro verse chorus etc and under east sections the chords without the strum patterns it forced my brain to realize you just remember the order of sections but there are only max 4 parts some use same pattern so I was able for whatever reason to memorize faster 10 songs in 1 month through. Also Grif mentions in one video how he gets the strums to sound better A-constant hand motion just missing hits when called for and carrying strumming low mid and high strings . I found a this video about locking strumming with drums and.... watch these guys all play they are doing this and when it started sound smoother and tone more pretty its inspired to keep going.

I am not going to outline now fully but just to say my other goals were A- memorization and stop using tab to play memorize instead lots of post on this site about this problem.

B-Playing up to speed- This is essential to many songs and why Griff has the speed bullder course

C-Technique- Not knowing what things are like bends pull off hammers but being able to do them correctly easily and make them sound professional level . See below website about the mechanic of guitar I found this guy is great at explaining but its also something Griff mentions


My best advice to you is start today pick 5 songs from one or both of the acoustic sites below and learn them by memory not parts the whole thing straight through and play them for someone you will be inspired and gain the needed confidence.

You will also up your rythym which you know is rightfully a huge emphasis of griffs Course. If you dont have rythym strumming you need it or you will have harder time rythym with solos which Griff again has a course on Rythym patterns in solos and you need that skill to make them sing...

I say again no one could explain these things I started as a kid no internet so I was doomed by bad well meaning teachers . I try to help when I see these kind of posts which is I see often on here because it is frustrating but just pretend you are starting now and get focused get serious

Back to the Lab
The Scientist

https://www.youtube.com/@GuitarZero2HeroExpress/videos

https://www.youtube.com/@BruceGuitar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCwGNhrjygA

Below example of guy who finally made me realize why my hammer pull off were not sounding clean and good . Check his site for more bending and other tips about guitar mechanic of playing. I have lots of stuff like this if you like it I will send to you. Sometimes you need a few people to say the same thing in different ways to sink in and get that aha moment.

Get PERFECT Hammer-Ons & Pull-Offs in 10 Minutes!

The secret to lightning fast legato isn't repetitions or practice time...it's understanding how your joints and anatomy work! With a few simple adjustments y...

www.youtube.com

 

[PapaBear]

At the end of the day it comes down to practice

 

[CaptainMoto]

@PeterSchroeder

I think this would be my approach:
-Learn more complete songs
-Improve Rhythm first, Solos second
-More live performances with a band
-Focus on how to use the gear rather than getting gear

 

[MikeS]

I've been strumming chords since the mid 60's. I got to the point where if I had a bit of familiarity with a song, I could play it with song book in front of me. If they were all chords that I was familiar with, I could even just listen to many songs and just KNOW what the chord changes were (At the time mostly Major, Minor, 7th, Maj 7th. I didn't know 9ths or 11ths so I couldn't "hear" them).

All of the suggestions in the above posts are great and necessary, but the most important thing missing from all of them is listening to lots of music over and over. If you can't hum what you want to play, you will never play it without music in front of you.

Until I found Griff around 13 years ago (wow time flies) I never believed that "lead guitar" was something I could do. I know I'd be better than I am if I had used may of the suggestions given by others in earlier posts, but don't discount listening to lots of music.

 

[PapaRaptor]

… from scratch, but with all your experience from playing the guitar for x years (decades ?), how would you approach it now ?

Background - when I first picked up a guitar about four or five years ago, I had no clue what I really wanted and how diverse this could be. I wanted to try something I never did before (music), see how it goes, maybe play a couple of cool riffs. Then I realized how many different paths there are. Learned this and that, some power chord riffs, some melodies, started venturing into blues and love it. Always loved listening to blues and blues rock. Then tried acoustic because I mainly play for myself. Now I am at a point where I can do some pieces from lots of different areas, but nothing where I am good at. Asking myself whether concentrating on one thing for some time would help me…

In my opinion, it comes down to two things, goals and focus!
You can't really have goals if you don't focus on them and unless you have goals, you really have nothing on which to focus.

You need to ask yourself a few questions in setting those goals.

Why are you doing this? You must be crystal clear as to "why" you are doing this?

• In your mind, what does success look like to you?
• Are you moving towards that goal?
• What is at stake if you do nothing?

Since it's still January, consider setting goals for the year. Be realistic and set finite, achievable goals. This will give you the ability to measure your progress towards making those goals.

Set a goal for the next month. What do you want to learn? What item(s) will you focus on that you can reasonably achieve in a month? When you achieve your monthly goal, set another one. Make sure your monthly goals make progress towards your annual goal.

What genre(s) of music are you most interested in? Pick one or two. You mentioned blues and blues/rock, and acoustic. Blues/rock is a genre. Acoustic is a style of which many genres fit into. Find the genre and stick with it. Find course material or a local teacher (or both) that will help you down the straightest path towards your goal.

Schedule regular practice. If you don't make time for it, you cannot expect progress. This can be the most difficult thing, but if you don't have some portion of your day set aside for learning and practice, your progress will not advance nearly as quickly as if you do. If you can squeeze more time during the day than your scheduled practice time, that's gravy, but a minimum "appointment" with yourself is very important. Having a guitar sitting by the sofa and playing it during commercials is great if you also have scheduled practice times, but it's not really focused practice on its own.

Avoid shiny objects. This is for a lot of us, the most difficult thing. There are thousands of YouTube videos with tons of great advice and thousands more that are full of crap. PIck a path and stay on it, until or unless you find that the path you're on will not take you towards your goal.

Sound like you! BB King's sound is absolutely distinctive. So is Clapton's, Ritchie Blackmore, Albert King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Albert Collins. If you want to sound like one of them, go for it as part of your study. But don't try and sound like all of them.

Play with others. This is the fastest way to improve your skills and gain confidence. Find someone who shares what you want to do. If that's blues, find a blues jam. It may be difficult, but if you look hard enough, you will find either a regularly scheduled jam or at least someone with whom you can get together.

Sorry to run on so long, but in the time I've spent within the BGU community, I've been the best of students and I've been the worst of students. It is easy to get caught up in the moment and shiny objects are everywhere. I've fallen off the wagon more times than I care to think about. Had I religiously followed the advice in this message, I would be far beyond where I am today. But when I fail to meet a goal, I try to objectively analyze why I failed. Most of us have a difficult time following a regimen for any length of time. Beating yourself up over not meeting a deadline is counter productive. It's all a part of learning.

Playing is supposed to be fun. A large part of that fun can be found in the self-satisfaction of having established and met realistic, achievable goals.

 

[dvs]

I wish I'd recognized earlier that my timing was not what I thought it was (and by "not what I thought it was" I mean "sh*t") because it is taking me years to fix that.

From my early days as a youthful clarinetist, I learned quite a lot about playing music. In particular, I could sight-read complicated rhythms and melodies easily. I'm sure that back then I was also playing in time - if not, my teacher would have noticed and I wouldn't have fared as well as I did in various competitions, auditions, etc. After I left high school, I pretty much stopped playing the clarinet. I learned a few chords and a few songs on the guitar, and for the next 30 or so years I occasionally and irregularly messed around with the guitar, mostly just playing those few songs, without really adding to my skills or knowledge.

When I more recently started seriously learning to play the guitar I did not realize that I had developed a habit of playing ahead of the beat, also rushing the tempo. How did that happen? Most of the ensemble playing I had done as a clarinetist was with a conductor, and all of it was reading from sheet music. As a guitarist, I was playing by myself, so I didn't have much opportunity for feedback. Also, as a lazy person who thought my timing was excellent, I rarely played with a metronome. Another issue was that, partly because of my background playing mostly classical music, I relied very heavily on music and charts, rather than memorizing chord progressions and song structure. I was relying on the sheet music to not get lost, and of course I was not counting out loud, or even in my head, and I could remain blissfully unaware of 4-bar phrases or 8-, 12-, & 16-bar song sections. Unfortunately, when I was NOT reading music or a chart I could (and did) occasionally lose track of which beat of the measure I was on and I might change chords at the wrong place, or even worse I'd throw in an extra beat or two (or leave one out!) and I didn't even notice. This is a huge problem if you're trying to play with others. Just sayin'.

@Griff and others eventually pointed out to me what I was doing, though it took a me while before I could hear that I was ahead of the beat. (Listening to older recordings of myself now, it's obvious.) And I now understand why I occasionally got certain looks from bandmates, when I started playing again in ensembles. I've been working on both of these problems for 4 or 5 years, and I think I'm finally getting over them, but it would've been a lot easier to get it right the first time.

 

[Elwood]

I think I'd just learn to dance.

 

[CraigHollander]

Wow we are really getting somewhere finally towards consensus that will really help both new players and medium old guys like us who never got to where we wanted but are now doing it. Take a look at even the different responses to the question....are merging towards real solutions.

-Me- my usual consistent response (long winded as if no one has told me that before ha ha) . How you practice will determine if you succeed or not. Set the real clear goal of what you want to do and then figure out what is holding you back and how to fix it and you will make progress if you get pumped up honest with yourself and focused . Then I gave actual details on how I am personally doing it for Strumming Rhythym.

-Papa- I love you and you definitely have been on these board and are loved but telling him it comes down to practice does not help him without detail which is what I keep saying in every post one way or another. He like many think he has been practicing but as someone who has done what he has described that is not practice. Many of the medium oldsters may remember the great musician Joe Jackson. My guitar teacher during teens was Vinnie Zumo who toured the world for 8 years with Joe. Madison Square Garden level player. All the concepts in Griff course he touched on one way or another but.... he never explained the mechanic of playing guitar or ... the how to effectively practice. So once left his lesson I was on my own with no roadmap. So Papa no I respectfully disagree that another 4-5 years of wrong practice method for Peter will do him or anyone any good. This is why I keep annoyingly trying to say this I have been where Peter is recently now I am not so I am living proof...More is not better you just need 1 hour of super focus with purpose a day to get good.

-Captain- said

-Learn more complete songs- I said this but I tried to give him one possible way to quickly gain the ability to do this so I agree with you. Always try to add the How part that is what will help people what ever method you proved to yourself works.

-Improve Rhythm first, Solos second- I said this 100% agree and I on my reboot divided some time on both but I think a month on the rhythm strumming only would help things to do 1st for a month.

-More live performances with a band- I think I agree with you here one thing that helped my buddies who also could play professional within 4 years of HS was jamming all the time but.... you had to have some minimal competency to do that with them and ... see above I didnt . I suggested similar to learn to strum some of the songs perfect correct strum pattern and accents and then play for family or friends then you can later try jamming with live drummer. The reason I think on the other hand that we are older and may not be good idea right away is if you play with solid drummer bass you may struggle and get down more likely you will play with someone who is not good who will hold you back with their bad habits. If you have someone understanding who is a great drummer and explain you are trying to feel what it is like get feedback and they are willing to take time to help you knowing that do it now yes.

-Focus on how to use the gear rather than getting gear- Yes again this is why I have been going deep into and loving all over my spark amp. No guitar or amp will make you be able to play but if you have access to something like spark you can learn how to get the best tone that inspires for $250 . Just like with guitars you can 100% can get very good sounding very playable guitars now for 400-600 dont break the bank I agree learn how to use the equipment before you end up wasting money (as we have all done at one time or another.)

Captain A+ Your Science is solid!

Mike S

"If you can't hum what you want to play, you will never play it without music in front of you."

I still to this day remember on 60 minutes George Burns was interviewed when he was close to 100 sitting on park bench by I think ed Bradley talking about singing and why most cant and he tells Bradly something to the effect of sing song it. This is how people in Jazz Scott. Humming it is same concept as well. Many use 1 & UH type counting but I realized in my last month of breakthrough and this goes to my very 1st post asking for advice on Dec 19th about sounding fluid. You can be counting as Griff says but sound off and blocky not fluid. You need to hum the sound of even chord progressions and definitely solos or when you using counting literally do it like you would sing it. Even steady but through the beat no pause. Solos sound good when they float over the beat you have to watch you accenting your intonation your ending your vibrato to make sound right. Thats why everyone says shit like that solo sings it's not robotic. So Humming yes you get it into your Brain like a sung phrase. Note the start at end and once started I kinda think of sound I am going to land on so I am hearing in my head doing this whole lick phrase not one not at a time. This is why many people use words to count they are more rhythmic and easier to keep up over and over here is a link to show you some ways to do this. https://makemomentsmatter.org/classroom-ideas/rhythm-syllable-systems-what-to-use-and-why/. Mike 100% in agreement good one. I would add one thing not only listen to what you are trying to play but train yourself to listen to yourself both why you are playing and by recording yourself You will hear when its not right and can correct quickly .


Raptor- Yes you touched on all my key points we are in sync 100%

DVS- yes to all you are saying . I have been there done this type of thing glad you are breaking out again .

Now guys LOL to all who are on this board. I am not even at the level yet of many of you who play in bar bands or more. My suggestion to help each other is this . Always remember to provide the how to do solution and to be clear try to use video of you doing the solution but more likely nothing wrong with link to specific griff section of course and when needed outside video material. Most of what is on net is total garbage. Griff is the best when it comes to blues but yes if you look at the material I have put up occasionally from other people it's useful. Anyone with links to the How to part share. Example is of course Griff shows Hammer pull off yet I have seen people say they are week at it even on this board so they like me just need a different explanation to get to same spot sometimes. If you dont do hammers like the video I put up thats fine if you are getting sound you want but like the bending video I put up we do call some players professional for a reason and when they happen to execute like over 80% of the time a certain way it may help to consider trying?

I hope you all dont think I am nuts by now. I just read post like Peter and I know his problem was mine and I know that what I am doing is working so I am sure it can work for others to not waste time and fun. Knowing others have generally the same exact problems I had holding them back was a breakthrough in turning it all around. I am getting ready to set next level goals for 2nd full month FEB continuing to keep log. Progress every time I practice. In a year my nightmare of not being able to truly play will be long over that is what this is all about to me.

Back to Lab
Scientist

 

[CraigHollander]

Elwood

Dancers count at all times and if you learn it will help guitar playing..... keep eye out next few days will be posting full preset breakdown for spark that is going to help to quickly locate some really good shit!

 

[Elwood]

Dancers count at all times

I musta seen some different dancers. Anyway, this thread reminded me of a tune that I made up and posted (way back when) that addresses this very scenario. I still can't say it any better. My blues,.mp3

Please forgive my indiscretion in re-posting this, the devil made me do it.

 

[Grateful_Ed]

Sigh... don't want to sound like a broken record of our esteemed leader, but for me.... counting.

 

[CraigHollander]

I cant open the link......

Grateful ED Why the sad emoji are you saying counting is not fun? I hate counting but I know eventually will not need it much. I really found doing the strumming practice I describe above helped the counting quickly more than counting the solos did initially

 

[Grateful_Ed]

It's not fun for me, and of all things I wish I had done as a younger man, counting is number one.
I can grasp the concept and do it very slowly, but have not been able to bring it up to even half speed.
Granted it isn't as critical for strumming and rhythm, but my goals are to not necessarily solo, but fills and turnarounds (which should be easy) that I can do, but if I try to play with someone else, I screw us both up still.
I haven't given up, but it's the one thing that I am not making progress on that screws up my progress on the things I want.
Oh, and I couldn't find a "frustration" emoji.

 

[CraigHollander]

ED

Even Griff says that at a certain speed you have you know the lick and its very difficult to say 1+E +&+Uh fast enough so you sort of use the counting to learn the lick correct timing then as you speed it up you will not always be able or should be able to count you may say on triplets
1 UH 2 UH 3 etc not 1$ UH you just feel it but here are 3 things that will help you count it.

1- Look at the link I put up above about using Rhythm words . Pick what you like. Example sometimes I use for Triplets depending on which emphasis of triplet Ti Tiri or Tiri Ti . 3 syllables 3 beats per note easier to say fast with rhythm make sure your sort of flicking it when you say it right on beat like when you shake wrist to side down quick and just by relaxing it comes right back up. So you bouncing the 2 sections off the beat when you say them you will hear it .

2- Another thing that works if I use #s instead of 1 & Uh I just count this 123 223 323 423 This was amazing for me because I never lose track where in measure I am helps to anticipate a chord change target etc

3- To the above to count it but also think musically 1st what sound does it start on what does it end hum or sing song it with any sound you can make just make sure with backing track or metronome you start right spot and end dont think of indifidual counting just envision sound of the lick your start point and target. This helped me sound better and timing then counting became easier .

4- make sure you dont look at tab while practice counting or playing lick memorize 1st another hot topic on thread. If your reading your not listening or ingraining just learn the lick even if not perfect just know notes and then practice timing .

5- Realize lick timing or counting pattern is just like strumming proven by grifs course Rhythm figures for blues lead guitar . When people make a statement like I just feel it what is really going on is their brain is somehow hearing the pattern same as strumming and they have the notes memorized. This is why I said if you can strum well you can do leads well its easier to strum but theory of timing is... the same.

6- Lastly I think we can all benefit from mastering all 4 levels of blues speed builder which also will help you to hear the subdivisions which is key to playing faster triplets at 140 or sextuplets at 90 Griff talks about it. When you can hear it you can count it even faster than you think .

Try some of this my friend it works ...

 

[Elio]

There isn't really much that I can add to these comments since they have all been often reflected in a lot of the posts over the years, and they all bear repeating. For me, the concept of always having a concrete goal is key. My most unproductive periods have always been those where I didn't have a firm goal to work towards, resulting in my practice sessions consisting of just mindless exercises.

Conversely, my biggest gains have always come from a combination of two things: 1, working toward learning something new, and 2. playing with others. Every time I attend a jam session, it inevitably makes me see both the strengths and weaknesses in my playing, and exposes me to some new ideas.

I mentioned in another post that I have been trying to get up the courage to sit in at the local Blues Society jams. The players there are incredibly good, with at least one or two having won and/or been nominated for Grammys, so it's fair to say that I have been intimidated to sign up. It finally dawned on me that instead of jumping into the deep end with my guitar, I could just acclimate a bit by playing bass at first. I spent most of November and December working on my bass playing, and finally sat in with them at this month's event. Although I gained some self-confidence from what I thought was a pretty good set, I really gained a lot by just having the opportunity to listen to everyone play without the anxiety of worrying about myself having to solo. It also really forced me to focus much more on the drummer and locking in my own timing. As a final plus, bass playing always really forces me to really learn the fretboard from a different perspective, which ultimately improves my guitar playing. While I am still trying to learn one or two new bass songs per week, I am back to achieving some guitar goals, but with a new perspective and a bit more confidence.

My realization is that sometimes achieving a goal can be best accomplished with a detour along the way. As others have said, focus on the journey, not just the destination.

 

[Elwood]

I cant open the link......

now you can't again, so there.. Dropbox got all fussy with me.

No matter, I was just being silly.

 

[PapaRaptor]

now you can. Dropbox got all fussy with me.

That one doesn't work either. It drops me into my own account.

 

[JonMiller216]

… from scratch, but with all your experience from playing the guitar for x years (decades ?), how would you approach it now ?

Maybe just this, although I don't have all that much experience in comparison to others on this forum:

Practice rhythm - Chord shapes, patterns, styles. Play along with a backing track and play rhythm. When you can play the “basics”, maybe then focus on ways to make rhythm more interesting, add some fills, use different chord shapes or locations, change your strumming. Listen and watch what more accomplished folks do.

Practice counting (licks) - Counting a lick is tedious as hell, but what I’ve learned recently is that although I can learn a lick without counting, I can’t figure out when to use it when I play along with a backing track. I’m either late/early and don’t play at the right tempo. BUT, when I count along with the track (not easy at first), the licks seem to fall in place where they belong/sound good. It's nice when improvising to have a lick that will work in a particular spot, but if you can't plug in the lick at the right time, you're going to lose your place.

Practice stringing licks into solos. In other words, take the licks you’ve learned by counting, and drop them into a solo for 12 bars. Mix up the order of the licks, skip a bar, listen to what you’re playing, record yourself, save the recordings and go back and listen to your progress.

Find a way to play out with others, somewhere. Go and make mistakes, give yourself a break, get comfortable with what you can do and what you can’t. Then give yourself a pat on the back for having the guts to play in front of others. It's pretty useful if you can have someone record it and go back and watch it later.

Don’t spend too much time/frustration on a particular skill and give up. Let it breath a bit. I’m still trying to get comfortable playing the Texas Shuffle (BGU 2.0, Lesson 10, part 2). It used to sound like crap, now it’s getting almost acceptable. I spend 5 minutes or so on it almost every day. It’s still not good enough for me, but better.

Lastly, decide on what’s “good enough”. That goes to the whole goals thing. What are your goals? Do you want to play just at home, in a jam, in a band, for fun or money?

My son is a classically trained musician, he works on things when he practices his clarinet that only dogs or other people at his level could hear. His goals relate to being a principal clarinetist in an good/great orchestra. He’s been playing and practicing in a wholly focused manner for the past 20 years (he’s 32), and only now does he feel like he’s getting somewhere. His goals are set pretty high, and they have become part of his life/identity. It’s the only thing he’s ever wanted to do and that hasn’t changed.

Me, I just want to keep trying to get better, and for me I know what that sounds like. I’d like to think that every day, no matter how well practice went, that I’m a little better than I was yesterday. That may be self-delusion, but it does help me keep going back to practice the next day.

I believe some focused practice every day is cumulative, and it will pay off.

 

[BraylonJennings]

4- make sure you dont look at tab while practice counting or playing lick memorize 1st another hot topic on thread. If your reading your not listening or ingraining just learn the lick even if not perfect just know notes and then practice timing .

Griff, I think would disagree with #4. I believe he states regularly that it's wrong to learn the notes, then work on timing. It's suggested that you slow it down until you have them both right. On lessons, we can play to the video. On our own, you need to read the music to know the timing. Orchestra members read to learn. Of course, you can't own it until you don't need the tab or sheet music. But its better to get the timing first, even if some of your note choices are wrong. It'll sound better quicker.
***
I agree with those who say learn songs. Simple songs at first to learn chords, open or barred. Then work to add a fill or turnaround while staying in time. Eventually you'll learn more complex chords and the major and minor scales. Riffs and solos will come after. But you need songs. Who wants to listen to exercises and raw soloing for long? You need to play for someone and they mostly want to hear songs. I'd much rather hear someone deep into a simple 3 chord tune, than trying to show me 2nd rate EVH or SRV licks.